To think we should do away entirely with school holidays?

[SkaPunkPrincess]

Just musing and wondering why we don't just do away with them entirely?

Run schools like a regular workplace in that they operate 52 weeks of the year, Teachers and students to get 4 weeks allocated holiday allowance per year and parents can use this at their discretion. Staff would be able to be more flexible and they would have more time in the year to teach children at a more realistic pace?

Am I missing why this isn't a genius idea?

Holidays are times when no work should be done, surely.

I don't view half-term as work-free time and work a few hours each day. Currently planning a scheme of work for next year comprised of 50 lessons, for which I have been given 2 hours of school time - you cannot plan 50 quality lessons in that time, so it falls into my 'holiday time' and I'll likely have spent about 20 hours on that by the time it's done. I've also taken home 3 sets of books to mark (2-3 hours each), and have a few reports to write for a number of agencies working with our children. I may get up at 6am instead of 4am and may enjoy the odd while working, but other than that it's work.

Some colleagues are in this week teaching year 11 for free - where else would you go into work for an entire day unpaid?

I use 2 weeks in summer to work - one week to sort out materials from the previous year, decide on what to keep and what to throw, as well as getting my performance files in order on the weak hope I may get a pay rise next year.
The other week is used to order materials for the following year - I can spend up to £70 on stamps for my job alone, out of my own pocket - and plan the first few weeks of lessons to ease myself back in when there will be mountains of paperwork to plough through in the first few weeks back.

I enjoy about 6 weeks of proper holiday in a year, but work every weekend and half my holidays during term-time.

Narkle, what would happen if you said “two hours is not enough time for that task” or “what else would you like me to drop so that I can complete that task?” Have you ever contacted your union about workload? No one should have to work while on holiday.

LiketoshopI I’m not sure I understand your comment, but most people put annual leave onto the end of their maternity leave to extend it. If teachers do the same, they have to time their conception quite specifically!

I don’t agree with the structure of the OPs idea but I do think it’s time that schools had a think about wrap around etc options (subcontracted if they have to be) to help families. We know that the childcare burden falls on women, we know that it’s cited as the most common reason why women don’t pursue careers so instead of just saying “kids shouldn’t be in school after 3pm” let’s think of constructive ways that we could help everyone. No, it’s not ideal but neither is a raft of women not having a fulfilling life. It’s not all about what is super optimal for the children.

If you dont want your children to interfere with your work simply dont have them!

Children should in no way be forced into a mundane 9-5 (sadly i know many who do longer and are terribly exhausted) children need rest time to grow and learn. You cant learn everything stuck in a classroom. Not to mention the emotional issues - kids need to spend quality family time and be at home.

I love having my kids home for holidays, meeting up with friends and long summer days picnicking in the park.... Why deprive them of a fun childhood?

Some colleagues are in this week teaching year 11 for free - where else would you go into work for an entire day unpaid?

I think teachers do a massively undervalued job and I’m sure lots of people wrongly assume that teachers have 13 weeks of genuine holiday a year where they can do as they please.

But the attitude some teachers seem to have (I see on MN all the time and hear it irl) that they are the only profession that works long (unpaid) hours is quite rediculous. This applies to pretty much most professional jobs that I can think of.

My DH (management) my DSis (city finance) and many friends (Drs/Nurses) who work 70 hour weeks, plus overseas travel on top, plus studying for professional exams outside of work hours, spending hours checking emails and conference calls whilst on “holiday” etc etc.... teachers don’t have the monopoly on this

What a fun parent you are!

Absofrigginlootly.
We don’t think we are the only profession to work extra unpaid hours. However we are the only profession who are not believed. A good proportion of the population still think teachers work 9-3 and have holidays off. Hence the assertion that we should have less holiday etc. That’s why we bang on about it.

I don’t think most of us actually mind working the holidays (I love setting my room up in summer for instance) but we get pissed off when people want to take the holidays away.

But the attitude some teachers seem to have (I see on MN all the time and hear it irl) that they are the only profession that works long (unpaid) hours is quite rediculous

I have never seen this claimed by any teacher anywhere.

Children are not little adults and they have different needs. You can see the children visibly start to wilt as the end of term gets near, forcing them to spend more time in school would be terrible for their education. My 7 yo is exhausted this week she’s needs the holidays. With the exception of the summer holidays most teachers will be working all or part of the holidays not to mention weekends and evenings. I don’t begrudge them the chance to catch up.

We don’t think we are the only profession to work extra unpaid hours. However we are the only profession who are not believed.

This a million times.

I've stopped going to a particular shop that my DP and I used to visit every week as I got fed up of all the passive aggressive comments from the owner about my holidays.

I work part time so sometimes go shopping on a weekday during term time. On one occasion he asked me why I wasn't at school, I explained, he said 'I thought it must be an inset day as you teachers spend them in the pub'.

It sometimes actually makes me want to cry. I've switched to part time teaching as I can't hack the long hours and pressure so it really stings when people criticize teachers for 'only working half the year'.

But the attitude some teachers seem to have (I see on MN all the time and hear it irl) that they are the only profession that works long (unpaid) hours is quite rediculous

Agree with echt. The number of threads which tell us how lazy/unproductive/ we are is beyond reasonable. We all accept other people work just as hard. And many of those people working just as hard have better pay and/or daily working conditions. And not everyone believes they can could do a better job of being a health professional/social worker/accountant/.....yet we put up with just about everyone telling us how wrong we’re getting it!

Narkle, what would happen if you said “two hours is not enough time for that task” or “what else would you like me to drop so that I can complete that task?” Have you ever contacted your union about workload?
We did and got told to, essentially, suck it up or look elsewhere. Union is powerless; it's not an LA school.

Absofrigginlootly

With the exception of nurses. Those professions you have described are much better paid than a teacher salary.
Nursing is shit too and Drs have a huge amount of stress but get paid a hell of a lot more.
City finance and management also get paid big bonuses and higher salaries. A teacher can look at being paid 38k max per year and that's after years of dedication and extra responsibilities. A deputy's salary is around 40ish.

So whilst I understand what you're saying, it's very different. And the OP states schools not just teachers, therefore TAs and support staff would suffer who already earn the bare minimum.

I really do wish people will just give their opinion without the scathing attacks on the OP. It's unnecessary and uncalled for.
It's a radical idea and our education system right now is in need of radical ideas however this one won't work for a number of reasons.
One of them is right here in this post from parents who want to give kids and idyllic childhood or look forward to the holidays for family time or want children to have experiences outside education.
The current system doesn't work in a modern society where we have both parents working, single parents working, or even no parents working and classed as disadvantaged families. Some of these kids only structure in their lives comes from school so what kind of experience outside education do they enjoy? These kids will spend 6 weeks staring at screens and stuck in their own environment . Not sure that's an idyll childhood either. For those who can get away, spend hours on queues at attraction parks and pay high travel costs to take the kids away and I wonder is that really family time?
For we working mums, we don't see school as childcare. Childcare means I can choose to take my child away on holiday when I want. I can decide if I want my child to stay at home on any days without fear of consequences. School doesn't allow that so for someone to say working parents are looking for childcare for their kids doesn't make any sense. Since the government want more parents into work it would be great if the whole system was given a shake up to encourage people into work.
I'm a working mum with an 11 year old and unfortunately I will be working this summer holiday because there are too many people requesting the time off. So there goes my son's idyllic childhood and my opportunity to spend family time with him. And I'm sure there are many other parents like me out there.
The system needs to change with a radical idea.

Sent from my iPhone

Chickenowner I've refused to go in certain shops because of comments like you mentioned.

for you OP... don't eat it all at once

First, teachers 'holiday' time is vary rarely used to sun themselves in sunny climates/visit family/laze around, it more often consists of training, prepping, commitments that couldn't happen due to being at school between 7:45am to around (more often than not) 5:30pm. Not to mention the report writing! There's your half term 'holiday' gone right there, 30 children if you're in primary, and even more if you teach secondary!!

And when, pray tell, would holiday entitlement be taken?! Just before SAT's and GCSE's? No, because the aim of teaching in the structure we currently has is that it prevents burnout, not just for teachers but pupils too! Have you not ever noticed how tired your children (if you have them) get leading up to a half term / school holiday?

Here have another, on behalf of teachers everywhere

I'm a p/t teacher studying for a post grad senco qualification and I do that in my 'spare' time 😉. I also get upset with the teacher bashing re holidays. TBH, if the government wanted to pay me to work some of the summer holidays I probably would. Maybe 2 weeks? But the government wouldn't be able to pay me so it's a non starter. I know it's probably been said already but teachers are paid for a certain number of days per year - not the whole year with 12 weeks hols. Our pay is pro rata.

I have never seen this claimed by any teacher anywhere.

The teacher poster I was responding to said just that:

where else would you go into work for an entire day unpaid? (lots of professions)

But I can see that as a profession you put up with a lot of shite from parents, students, society and the government.

I don’t think it’s helped though by some teachers patronising parents about their children and how they learn best - like the whole summer born issue. I’m part of a 10K strong Facebook group about requesting CSA reception starts for summer borns - the stories on there you read about the patronising crap that parents have had to battle with when it comes to who thinks they know their own children best is ridiculous.

Fantastic idea OP
Teachers are paid term time only (split evenly over 12 months) so where would the extra money come from?
The 1,265 hours we are currently paid for are spread over a maximum of 195 days, 190 days of which are with pupil contact.

What a crap 💩 idea
Kids need a life too

Having a quick look at PISA rankings, I'd chuck out the ones whose culture is radically unlike that of the UK, i.e. Asian.

That leaves Estonia and Finland, where the summer holidays are longer than the UK. The summer holiday "drop" in learning? FFS . Seriously, that only became an issue when the economy made two jobs a requirement to own a house, instead of having, for instance, rent regulation. Suddenly long holidays are a worry. Really? Really? Let's make education a form of childminding. Pit parents against teachers.

Emoji

Me too, sad isn't it. Their loss though, we used to do the majority of our food shopping in that particular place, so they have lost our custom and our money.

The teacher poster I was responding to said just that

Who was it? It's a first for me so I'd like to read it.

Echt I’ve quoted them twice now... just scroll up and read