To complain about the office cleaning lady?

[TERFousBreakdown]

She seems nice enough, I don't know her personally and I have absolutely nothing against her in general.

But she doesn't knock. She doesn't take no for an answer either. Holding a meeting in the conference room? She'll pop in and start hoovering. Sitting in a room giving a performance review? She'll open the door and begin to dust. She'll also leave the door wide open when she leaves a room - despite there being three companies within this building and our facilities being access controlled (which obviously won't work if the door is left open).

I've asked her to knock a gazillion times. She won't. I've asked her to come back later when she has disturbed important stuff. She'll huff and puff and will need to be asked at least twice before actually stopping whatever it is she's doing. My colleague had a talk, too, about the door being left open for anyone to look right at our whiteboard with confidential calculations for a sale. Nothing seems to work.

And, yes, she does understand. It's not a language issue. She just doesn't seem to be arsed.

I get that this woman is paid a lot less than myself and my colleagues and that she probably has kids or a life to get back to after her shift. I really don't want to get her into trouble. I do desperately want her to be minimally considerate of the people working here, though.

So, AIBU to complain to the building manager?

Caveat: I am not a lawyer, and in practice it may indeed be easier for you to talk to the cleaning company directly. I was just objecting to the building manager’s “nothing I can do love” attitude.

She's showing a total lack of respect. If the only way she can clean rooms is to interrupt meetings, then something is wrong. If she's just miffed because she's a cleaner, then she's being deliberately rude. Either way, its disrupting business, so you must talk to your management.

You must talk to your management

That, unfortunately, would be myself. I'm the overall PM for the project that has the office ...

I'm quite surprised at some of these replies. How has it become normal practice to clean during office hours? I work in a large building and cost cutting has meant that the cleaners are in during the working day and it's ridiculous.

They clean our kitchen area at 1pm; just as everyone is trying to get their lunch (and one thought she was being clever to block the whole area - a through-route - with bins and her cart). They clean the stairs as people are coming in in the morning or leaving in the evening, and get huffy when they have to stop. They clean the toilets at 9am, just as everyone needs to go before going off to a meeting.

For a couple of months we had one who insisted on vacuuming the office at 11am every day. She took no notice at all of meetings, or people on the phone, and trailed her electric cable through the kitchen and past a load of desks. She "cleaned" the desks with dirty water in a bucket and a grimy rag. If you had papers on the desk she'd slop around them. She would then wipe the backs of the computers with the wet rag.

I complained to the cleaning supervisor, who "didn't see why it was a problem" (that she was preventing work on a multi million pound project for 30 minutes at the peak time of the day). Taking it to senior management got it stopped and now we have a man who comes in at 4pm when the office is quieter.

Jaxhog I doubt she's being deliberately rude because she's 'miffed at being a cleaner'.

You answered your own question Weasels. It's cost cutting. I would imagine the cleaners find it pretty stressful too, being in the way whatever they are doing.

YANBU. It seems to be an inevitable consequence of outsourcing , though, that no one is really available/contactable; and that the services provided are in some way or other not very satisfactory.

I would talk to buildings again, though, and point out that your contract is with them, not the cleaner's company.

She's not a cleaner. She's a mole for your rival companies.

And yes her job is JUST as important as the OP's otherwise it wouldnt exist!

So you’ll be happy if your local hospital decides to cut the numbers of doctors and nurses instead of the number of cleaning staff or canteen workers, because all jobs are equally important by virtue of their very existence?

I used to clean at a school. Our hours were 4.00 - 6.30 pm and no matter now awful the rooms were, we had to finish within that time frame. Teachers who stayed late always worked in the messiest room so that you had to whizz round extra fast to finish on time. Very inconvenient.

I can see this from both points of view. She needs to get done and you need to get your work done too. The only solution I can think of is that you tell her to ignore the rooms you are meeting in and try to leave them in a reasonable state when you leave them. Could a big note be put on the doors saying something like, 'Private meeting'?

Could some sort of spring be put on the door hinges to make them close automatically? Or would that breach H&S rules?

Just out of interest, OP if said cleaner, who seems to have been contracted to clean during working hours for X number of hours, has to wait outside in the corridors, because of meetings, etc... will she be paid for those wasted hours? Seems more like very poor management of staff, and that they need to contract a cleaner to come MUCH later, to ensure that they are free to do their cleaning, after you have been free to have your meetings, etc. Not really brain surgery, and shouldn't be a personal matter between you and the cleaner, rather, you should raise this problem sensibly with management and make sure that the cleaning persons hours are altered.

It really does sound like the issue is with whoever has decided that cleaners should be operating throughout office hours.

You should never complain about the way someone does their job unless you are willing to change places with them.

No, thought not.

Apart from leaving open the access controlled doors, I don't realky think she's doing much wrong. She will be under huge pressure to do the whole building in a ridiculously short time period so she has to get on with it. I think you're being a little dismissive of her job.

Why should she not do this because of
you? Oh yes. It's because you feel your role is more important

Oh FFs, there’s always one, isn’t there?

No, it’s because meetings / interviews are often confidential and it doesn’t maintain a professional example for the cleaner to be running through with a hoover. It’s basic common sense. Get a grip.

You should never complain about the way someone does their job unless you are willing to change places with them.

What a load of bullshit.

People are trained and employed to do a job at an acceptable standard and with a certain level of professionalism.

Whether or not you could do a better job has fuck all to do with it.

You should never complain about the way someone does their job unless you are willing to change places with them.

So, if I go somewhere to get my car washed and they start scrubbing it with steel wool, I should just sit there at watch them ruin the paint job since I choose not to wash my own car??

Ridiculous

I suppose we can’t send a bad meal back in a restaurant because we’re not professional chefs!

More than etiquette here. She is a security and privacy risk. You could quote gdpr; leaving doors open and not leaving when you are discussing people and business is not on. Think about what she is seeing on screens too.
I know she has a job to do but the current arrangements are not working for you. i would speak to the building manager about privacy, discretion and data security, I would.

If you really don't make much mess than I'd just decline the cleaner altogether. It will be easier to manage in the long run. You could always get your own cleaner in on a Friday or something just to hoover and dust, etc.

This women is taking the P*ss !!
I would report her behaviour! It’s unprofessional and down right disrespectful
I once worked for a company and the cleaner would whack my chair with the hoover as I was speaking with a customer. I reported it because at the end of the day it’s not right and she must have known it was completely inappropriate, she never did it again and I was able to do my job.

There was a case where the cleaner and security man had been able to access social services eg confidential desks/whiteboards paper ready for shredding...

Highly sensitive child protection stuff....

Eg query taking x child into care...
Joe blogs suspected paedophilia?
Etc. Etc

They were then selling the information on to their neighbours who the notes concerned... Went on for 6 months til social services realised where breach is!

"Strygil

You should never complain about the way someone does their job unless you are willing to change places with them."

And if you have a bad experience giving birth? Or bad surgery? Or bad experience with a divorce lawyer?

I've never read such rubbish. Think before you post.

It can be pretty stressful if your shift ends in a few minutes and there are still areas to be cleaned which you can't access as they are in use.
The op has said that she is more than happy for the cleaner to leave the area uncleaned, but I would imagine most employers would be unhappy with this.

The cleaner does seem to be going about things in a heavy handed way, but she has a job to do. The op has said that she doesn't mind the room being left uncleaned, so hopefully a solution can be found.

I think the op has listened to some sensible advice on this thread, but some comments about cleaners in general from other posters have been pretty unpleasant.

In what way have comments been ‘unpleasant’, Pingu?