To complain about the office cleaning lady?

[TERFousBreakdown]

She seems nice enough, I don't know her personally and I have absolutely nothing against her in general.

But she doesn't knock. She doesn't take no for an answer either. Holding a meeting in the conference room? She'll pop in and start hoovering. Sitting in a room giving a performance review? She'll open the door and begin to dust. She'll also leave the door wide open when she leaves a room - despite there being three companies within this building and our facilities being access controlled (which obviously won't work if the door is left open).

I've asked her to knock a gazillion times. She won't. I've asked her to come back later when she has disturbed important stuff. She'll huff and puff and will need to be asked at least twice before actually stopping whatever it is she's doing. My colleague had a talk, too, about the door being left open for anyone to look right at our whiteboard with confidential calculations for a sale. Nothing seems to work.

And, yes, she does understand. It's not a language issue. She just doesn't seem to be arsed.

I get that this woman is paid a lot less than myself and my colleagues and that she probably has kids or a life to get back to after her shift. I really don't want to get her into trouble. I do desperately want her to be minimally considerate of the people working here, though.

So, AIBU to complain to the building manager?

If permission wasn't given by the time my shift finished I would leave a note or text my manager explaining why the room hadn't been cleaned.

I'd be perfectly fine with that. It's an office, not a pigsty. The amount of dirt and grime that accumulates in a day is negligible.

When I worked in the NHS we had the same problem. The problem wasn't with the cleaner but was the company who would take pay if rooms weren't done by a specific time every day. There was no option not to do it if they wanted to continue to be paid.

My manager delegated the job of 'having a word' to me (which he did as he just couldn't get people) and after she had a good cry she said it wasn't up to her and she got into a lot of trouble if she didn't do it. I then had to speak to her manager who, ignored the conversation with me and had a go at her. It was a bloody mess and in the end I ini

Could you maybe say that to her op?
Although she does sound the type who would carry on regardless ☺

(Hit Post accidentally sorry)

...In the end I initiated getting another company, when meant spending more money.

It wasn't at all the cleaners fault. She too would ignore requests not to come in etc. but what I didn't realise was she got into trouble if she didn't do what she needed to. I don't know what she meant by take pay, but I know it put her job at risk as she was deemed to not be doing it properly.

We too had meetings which were confidential albeit not patient care.

Speak to the company doing it. But you need to phrase it diplomatically so she doesn't get into even more trouble, I'd say that's the issue here.

I worked in a hospital once, and a cleaner charged into a cubicle where a patient was haemorrhaging, and started mopping the floor! She got moved off the wards sharpish.

Our cleaners were the best source of gossip in the building. So I would be very against having them in confidential meetings.
Incidentally an old manager of mine used to post a member of staff posing as a cleaner during day long group interviews.
She got more information about the candidates than he ever could.

Why should she not do this because of you? Oh yes. It's because you feel your role is more important @Raver84
How do you determine that from what the op has written? It is basic manners, whoever you are, not to interrupt meetings in an office. My boss won't even walk into a meeting she isn't part of, unless asked by the other attendees.

I am sure there are other places for her to be cleaning while rooms are in use.

You’re not BU but neither is she really. It’s the setup that’s stupid.

I think you need to set new parameters with the buildings manager. Does she clean every day? If so maybe designate tues and thurs 9-10 as when she can clean meeting rooms and book them out as occupied during that time. Desks, kitchens and toilets etc can be done any time and doors must be left closed. If she can’t get to an area on a day then she is permitted to leave it uncleaned that day without fear of reprimand for doing so.

That sort of thing.

I think I love your cleaner 😁
She knows what she's doing but has a job to do and won't risk being in trouble for not completing. Why knock and wait to possibly be told 'no'
And yes her job is JUST as important as the OP's otherwise it wouldnt exist!

Put this situation in a home instead of an office.
Would you accept a cleaner who went into private rooms without asking, nosied into private papers without permission, in fact going specifically against being asked not to.

The OP is paying for the office!

I’ve cleaned offices and wouldn’t enter a room with a closed door without knocking. I also stopped vacuuming for phone calls (I do this now I clean houses too) and I skip desks being worked at unless they say they want them cleaned - most would go and grab a coffee or whatever when they saw me approaching but everyone is different. You quickly learn what individuals want and it works fine with mutual respect.

It can be annoying and time consuming when you end up going back and forth but , if I couldn’t get it all done, I made a mental note to make sure that room was done next time. I’m happy as long as I can justify my actions.

As she user listening to you, I would have a chat with the person in charge of cleaning but I wouldn’t complain at this stage as I suspect she’s afraid she will be in strife if she doesn’t get everything done. A friendly chat and mutual agreement may be all it takes.

Easy lock the door and leave the key in there or get her sacked.

I have worked cleaning offices but usually between 6 and 8 am.
I once had a job in office hours and couldn't stand it. Too much waiting around switching the hoover off for intermittent phone calls and mopping under people's feet.
I quit coz it made me late for my school cleaning job and it wasn't worth the hassle of the moody boss.
It needs to be a compromise on both sides. She needs to close the door and stop barging in with Henry hoover and you as an office need to speak to the cleaning company to come up with a schedule that works.
The cleaner herself doesn't have any say on what her hours are.

She needs better hours. It's hell trying to clean when others are in the way. Also isn't it a waste of time? It won't stay clean for more than 30 seconds?

You need to have a word with the manager and request cleaning after working hours. Having someone hoovering in the middle of a meeting is just bizarre. Or alternatively if the cleaner always has to wait for rooms to be empty, it's a waste of time.

Thanks for all the suggestions - especially from the posters who have experience working as office cleaners.

I'd like to make the following suggestion to the building manager later:

2 out of a total of 4 meeting rooms to be blocked off for cleaning every day (same ones per weekday, to make it easier).

The other meeting rooms don't need to be cleaned on the non-block days. There are two large teams in that office - mine and colleague's - and we're both fine with ourselves/our employees cleaning up after ourselves on these days if we really do accidentally sprinkle the carpet in crisp crumbs (never happens).

We're okay with desk space being done during office hours but also okay with a corner being skipped for a day if e.g. an employee is on the phone.

Doors must not be left open - especially not the front door connecting to the lift lobby (as stated above, it's a project office, so no receptionist in place).

For those of you in the know: does that sound sensible/practicable?

ETA, I do mean meeting rooms being blocked for a time slot, not the whole day. If we didn't need 4 we would have rented a smaller place.

That sounds sensible. How long does it take to clean one of the meeting rooms?

I think that sounds very reasonable op. It would help both you and the cleaner. It can be difficult trying to get everything done when rooms are occupied and maybe she felt under pressure. This may take the pressure off slightly and make your job easier too.

That does sound reasonable, and you are presenting management with a solution rather than a problem.
You could also suggest that she shouldn't be penalised if she can't access a room to clean it.

Any problems after that aren't down to you.

OP YANBU and your plan sounds eminently sensible and fair.

If the facilities manager is insistent on every job being done and the cleaner is just following instructions, could you suggest that you offer to set up a system that allows you to sign off on any "skipped areas" to say that you have said they don't need doing? That way you have the flexibility to ask that XYZ room is not disturbed today but the cleaner has evidence that she didn't just skip jobs but was actively asked not to do it and therefore shouldn't face any sanctions.

I was an office cleaner when I was at uni and it was great because it was not a difficult job but it sucked because I had to work during office hours and had to work around the employees.

Fortunately I was given enough autonomy over my workload to be flexible with the schedule when needed so that as long as my jobs were done within my shift times it didn't matter what order they were completed in. I had a cart with all supplies and I would go along the corridor and knock at each office (4/5 desks per office) and go in and clean any communal area unless asked to come back later. Anyone who wanted their desk cleaned would take 5 minutes to grab a coffee/pop to the loo/go to the copy room etc while I gave their desk a once over (since I tended to show up at the same time every day most of the staff would know I was coming so would allow for that 5 minute break into their work). If they didn't then I just asked them to sign my job sheet to show that they had authorised me to skip that task on the list. Since this was a standard process it took literally 10 seconds to complete so nobody minded the disturbance and I had a paper trail to show why XYZ task wasn't done.

Once everything else was done I'd hoover unless someone was on the phone/asked me to skip it, but most people knew that when I came into the office I would be hoovering about 15 minutes later and only for a few minutes so when they saw me carrying my other supplies back out to the cart they knew I would be hoovering next and so either wrapped up phone calls (where possible) so that they didn't delay me, signalled me to give them a few minutes (so I'd do a couple of other miscellaneous jobs first) or knew to wait the few minutes I was hoovering before starting a new call. If an important call came in while I was hoovering they would just give me a quick shout and I was more than happy to stop while they answered it, because of the flexibility and understanding we both had for each other's jobs.

AAAAAAARGH! Bloody cleaning company outsourcing!

Building manager says they've outsourced not only the doing but also the planning of all cleaning tasks to some 3rd party and he can't help me at all.

I'm now going to have to negotiate directly with the slavers outsourcing partner.

I know these companies from when I worked in hotels as a student. Bloody slave drivers the lot of them, all about quantity and billable items and piss poor employers to boot.

Wish me nerves of steel!

That’s utter bollocks. You don’t have a contract with the cleaning slavers, your contract is with the building managers. You require them to provide a clean working environment without unacceptable distractions. How they achieve it is their problem not yours.

You don’t have a contract with the cleaning slavers, your contract is with the building managers.

yes this. If the building management have outsourced the cleaning your issue is with building management to resolve. The company may well refuse to deal with you if they have no contract with you.

You don’t have a contract with the cleaning slavers, your contract is with the building managers.

That sounds about reasonable, actually.

I'm afraid I've had the privilege of working in places where I didn't have to manage my own facilities up to now ... and a privilege it was. I think I should send chocolates to the office manager at our main offices.

Thanks!