To think it's only going to get worse?

[Cobblersandhogwash]

I'm at my wits end.

I went into Ds1's room to say goodnight and to take his phone and tablet away for the night. We always do this and where he boards weekly, the teachers do it too.

He called me an effing bitch. I told him not to call me names and he said I deserved it.

I had to dash downstairs because I was so angry.

He's 13.

He so unpleasant. He has nothing nice to say to anyone.

He has always been defiant and prone to lots of rages when younger. From the ages of 4 to 8 he would rage all weekend. About the fact we had asked him to do stuff like get dressed, brush his teeth etc.

We have been down the counselling and CAMHS route. They all said he's a lovely boy. Very academic. Perfect at school.

I simply imagine it's going to get worse and worse. Perhaps he'll get physical one day.

Yet every evening from school at 9pm, he calls me up, nice as pie. It's like a split personality. It's very unsettling.

So his tablet and phone are confiscated now. But he says he needs the tablet for homework and revision.

I'm at a loss.

His parting shot was "I hope you get hung, drawn and quartered six times for being a witch."

He's in his room now. Probably trashing it. He's done that before. Kicked a hole in his door once.

Thing is that his two younger brothers are starting to be rude and defiant too. Not to the same extent he is. He was defiant over everything from teeth cleaning to getting dressed.

I would sit him down and talk about choices. If he chooses to swear, answer back, bully he chooses sanctions. At the moment he's on a screen ban and maybe they shouldn't be 're instated until he's earnt that respect back. He chose to go in the garden instead of do as asked so he's chosen another sanction, maybe earlier bedtime/no lift/no treat food for the evening.

Also... the defiance thing is about power. I did some behaviour training at the school I work in and they suggested offering a little bit of power. Instead of go and get showered now, you ask, are you having you shower before of after we eat. My DS can be challenging and this works for him. Are you tidying room now or after tea ( he will then put it off) so I will say cheerfully. 'Ok your choice, you can have screen time when it's all done'

He simply doesn't care. As long as he can do what he wants when he wants.

We get that the defiance is about power. We've given him those kinds of choices. He simply doesn't do it at any time.

The number of times I drove him to school in his pyjamas.....🙄 I had his uniform in the boot and he became hysterical as we approached the school. He would then get changed all meek and mild at School car park.

How would he react if you stop him doing karate?

Have you asked him, when it calms down, why he talks to you like that? Have you asked him if he wonders how that makes you feel? Ask him how it would feel for him if you spoke to him like that?

Tell him you love him, you do all you can to make him happy, and tell him you are hurt. See what his reaction is and then distance yourself for a bit.

Also, ask him if he enjoys his school and gently raise the point that perhaps it isn't working out for you as a family. 'Is this what you are learning at school?'. I wonder if you raise the prospect of him losing his week day school existence (and the freedom of it) that it would shift his focus.

You're underreacting.

Where is his dad in all this? Why is all DS's anger directed at you?

I know it's a bit old fashioned these days, but this is where a boy needs a bigger, older male to put him in his place. If my son had called me a fucking bitch, DH would have taken him apart in about five minutes, without raising hand or voice. Why isn't your husband dealing with the fact that his wife is being verbally abused in her own home? Get him to sort out his son. You back off and stop taking the brunt of this shitty behaviour. Yes it's hard being a teenager and all, but nobody was put on this earth to be called "a fucking bitch", it's unacceptable, end of.

Where does it stop? If he gets a girlfriend will he be verbally abusing her too? Is that acceptable because being a teen is hard?

Oh his dad is furious. Had a serious chat with him last night. Told him to go to his room when he wouldn't when I'd told him.

Agrees with me about taking away gadgets.

So sorry OP, no way should he speak to you like that, what does DH say about it? I have two DS’ nearly 17 & 15, so I understand how moody they can be, but I know they wouldn’t speak to me like that and if on the rare occasion they get cheeky to me or DH we back each other up straight away.

But he just does t care. He'd shrug if I said he's stopping karate. He might mind inside but he's not show it and just carry on.

I have nothing in my tool kit to deal with this. It's exhausting.

X-post!

So sorry this is happening OP. Some children are just totally defiant for no apparent reason. I have a very difficult teenage son, who has admitted he has anger issues and I am his target because I am the one who loves him the most 🙁. I have a daughter who is lovely and respectful. I know other teenagers who behave like this who have mental health issues. I know others for whom the teenage years are just a tough transition time and they behave like idiots then become normal again. My son is amazing to most other people and sometimes fabulous st home. However, it has been very difficult for the past 3 years ( he is 16) but I am seeing some signs of improvement. Your son should absolutely not be talking to you like that, but it is not always a reflection on your parenting. Be strong, insist on common decency and respect and try to remember “this too shall pass”. Not everyone who posts here has experience if dealing with difficult children and it is easy to say what you would do if it were you if it never has been you. Keep talking to him, keep giving him appropriate sanctions, keep talking to other people ❤️

What’s his behaviour like in school?

Does he find transitions difficult?

The self harming (if it definately wasn’t from the trampoline) makes me feel you definitely would benefit from professional help in this case. I think this boy needs to talk to someone sooner rather than later. However if you see a psychiatrist he may be put on medication if they see fit. (note, I don’t actually have experience with young teens and what they would do for them, only adults.) If that were the case, I wouldn’t be in favour of medication personally. Which is the reason why I would look into something like psychotherapy or general counselling first instead. I think he needs to discuss his feelings, and learn ways to cope with them. Can you afford to see someone privately? You do sound exhausted, yet you still care. So he clearly has good parents, but sometimes that isn’t always enough. There’s no shame in reaching out for help. Please take care of yourself too.

My DS similar age has to board (not his choice not mine). Boarding does not suit everyone. Mine likes his own company and doing his own thing. Boarding is quite regimented ( not knocking the school it is necessary). Mine gets very angry because he is under pressure and has little down time.

I would offer your DS the chance to move to day or flexi boarding from September. Bluntly unlike many posters before me I think you need to ignore the rudeness. I find this very difficult but now recognise the trigger points. I keep mine busy at home helping. He loves helping and make our home better. Eg mowing the lawn, sorting out electrical appliances, washing up. We talk as we are doing.

We've had some tough times and he knows that I have his back but he also knows my boundaries.

Try contacting the Family Lives helpline for advice and support

www.familylives.org.uk/advice/teenagers/behaviour/teen-violence-at-home/

Reading some of your later posts, that is definately not anormal amount of aggression.
I have seen extreme anger and self harming as symptoms of depression, I know that people with depression can often find it easier to hide when not around people who are closer to them. Self harm and aggression can be used to shout for help when children particularly find it difficult to articulate their true emotions.
However I have little to no experience of other mental health issues.
I would continue to seek proffesional help of counciling.
Does he repsect his dh?

Oh my goodness. We have had this. We still do. Have you ever been told about Pathological Demand Avoidance? It’s our daughter. To a tee. When I finally learnt about it my life, and hers, changed. I shall try and find a link.

12Etudes out of interest, how come you don't like medication?

Also op, has he ever shown self harm type behaviour? Punching himself in the head is unlikely to be his first go (its very hard to hit yourself enough to bruise, especially the face), which suggests either he's done it before, or it was genuinely an accident (not necessarily from the trampoline but some trip or fall in his room).

I think you have to tread a really careful line here.
I know his behaviour is dreadful but to me it sounds like he must be dreadfully unhappy / confused. He actually probably needs you to not take steps that will drive him further away.
I used to call my mum dreadful names at one point, awful. But fundamentally it was a dreadful way of trying to express a deep seated frustration (my younger siblings were being allowed a lot more freedoms than I had been - fashionable clothes, tv watching etc, and I struggled socially immensely at school because of this). I’m close to my parents now, and I think it’s becaise they never overreacted, and because they started organising more fun family holidays where we would do activities together (windsurfing, skiing etc) and that helped us to continue to feel like a family.

OP, remember when they’re little and they misbehave, the best advice was to get close to them, and stay nearby. And it’s not different now. Your son is struggling. I know he is being more than foul but there is something wrong and I really think you need to get closer. What are his male role models like ?

Yes. We watched telly last night together. He seemed to enjoy that. We chatted a bit but I kept it light. I wanted some progress in creating a normal, relaxed and calm environment.

He then wanted to sleep in our bed. So he did. He won't hug us. He's not at all tactile. He hates being hugged.

Such an angry kid. And then needs a lot of reassurance. A long road ahead.

He still denies hurting himself. Is adamant he bruised his face on the trampoline. I don't believe him because he would have howled in pain given the bruises.

Aw, bless him. Wanting to sleep with you speaks volumes and I'm so glad you allowed it.
Have you asked him if he wants to stop boarding?