To think it's only going to get worse?

[Cobblersandhogwash]

I'm at my wits end.

I went into Ds1's room to say goodnight and to take his phone and tablet away for the night. We always do this and where he boards weekly, the teachers do it too.

He called me an effing bitch. I told him not to call me names and he said I deserved it.

I had to dash downstairs because I was so angry.

He's 13.

He so unpleasant. He has nothing nice to say to anyone.

He has always been defiant and prone to lots of rages when younger. From the ages of 4 to 8 he would rage all weekend. About the fact we had asked him to do stuff like get dressed, brush his teeth etc.

We have been down the counselling and CAMHS route. They all said he's a lovely boy. Very academic. Perfect at school.

I simply imagine it's going to get worse and worse. Perhaps he'll get physical one day.

Yet every evening from school at 9pm, he calls me up, nice as pie. It's like a split personality. It's very unsettling.

So his tablet and phone are confiscated now. But he says he needs the tablet for homework and revision.

I'm at a loss.

This may sound weird but do you think he may be angry at you for not stopping him from boarding? Was it a test to see if you wanted him around? Who else lives at home with you?

Piece of purple sky, I was very upset when he said he wanted to board. I asked him over and over if he was sure.

It sounds like he lashed out (verbally) in frustration because he wasn't ready to give you his ipad and felt angry he had no say in it. They can be so addictive (it's gone midnight why am I staring at a screen?!)

I think I'd start a house rule that all phones/tablets are only to be used downstairs and explain why

This sounds really painful for you. My first thought was that you have the challenge of being a loving parent to someone who is behaving in a very unlovable way. It is very likely that this will eventually pass.

It's important for you to have the emotional support you need to feel really confident and grounded so you can react with calm and confidence even when you might be shocked and hurt. (Ironically my pearls of wisdom were just interuppted by being whacked by my 4 year old who has rather violent night terrors).

I was also trying to imagine what might be going on in a 13 year old boy's head at the moment of swearing aggressively at his mum. Here are some ill informed theories

If he's currently in the habit of swearing a lot when amongst friends he might not have a really strong 'off' switch for "locker room vs ladies present" (not saying this is a good way to be btw!) so perhaps it slipped out and he couldn't get himself out if it so made it worse. Teenagers do have poor impulse control I believe (hormones & brain development?). If you think this could be the case you could try the strategy of " I didn't hear that, I'm going to come back in again" calm voice, quick exit (stiff gin) calm down. I have known explicit selective deafness to give the chance of avoiding escalation.

Another possibility is that he's conciously trying to exert some power over you by his behaviour.

There's also a niggle I must mention from a recent chat with my wonderful befriender who was talking about some children with high functioning autism behaving really well at school but finding the effort so exhausting that they fall apart at home (4yo about to start school and may have autistic traits). Your son may not have any diagnosable condition but could be struggling with some unidentified problem which is making it hard for him to stay on an even keel at home.

Could you find a really wise counsellor for yourself to help you stay confident and happy in yourself and someone to vent frustration or plan strategies with? If you do don't tell him you're doing it.

It sounds like you have a wonderful and talented son who struggles with some important life skills and is very lucky to have such a loving mother.

Do you know something I've noticed about AIBU late at night? I often am on here late at night because I struggle to sleep. And I've noticed that the advice you get on here late at night is punish/punish/punish "take things away" "take more things away" "punish harder" "the problem you've got is because you're not punishing your kid enough - do it more".

Try reposting this tomorrow day-time, OP, and you'll get a very different set of responses.

Punishments don't work. Consequences do, but I'm not sure this is a consequence situation.

You're saying your kid is away from home 5 days a week 36-ish (????) weeks of the year. And yet in your OP, all you do is list stuff. Where's the fun and the nice times together?

Does he have end of year exams? Most 13 yr olds don't, but he's educated privately. If he does, then he DOES need to revise. Can you help him with that?

Your OP has no trust, no communicating together, makes no mention of family time. I'm not saying this to have a go at you, I'm gently suggesting you look at working on this and thinking this might improve the boundaries. Your OP is all boundaries.
You have a week to have fun with your 13 yr old. Make the most!

I would take all gadgets off him and say he only gets them back with a proper apology.If there is any repeat of this disrespectful behaviour they would again be removed.If he says he needs them for homework still say no, but that you will be happy to explain to school exactly why it had not been done.
His choice and consequences.

Lovely x-post PearlyG8 mine was quite nasty by comparison, and I wasn't trying to be.

OP, there's a theory - "the behaviour we give attention to is the behaviour we get more of". Pearly models this really well. Comment on the stuff you like, ignore what you don't.

Totally agree KeepServing (although do think that taking a device off a 13 yo at night is setting you both up to fail during hard times- hence my 'consequence' suggestion!)

Interesting response KeepServing another sleepless softie here

Although I have a little one I also have a very grown up one and used to teach everyone's favourite subject - maths. Lots of boys I knew to be a bit out of order at some stage or not very engaged academically or whatever eventually magically transformed into wonderful young men. It's true that that things can go badly wrong sometimes and really unfortunate choices can have sad consequences for young adults but in my experience this is rare (and those kids need love too).

I should say (contradicting myself somewhat) that I do also agree with no devices in the bedroom esp at sleep time, so that does rely on the parent taking them away or making sure they're switched off.

My DD is 16 now, so that's a big chunk of time in stages of development, and she spends increasingly minimal time with us. And she's in the middle of GCSEs, so I understand about having to revise. But we make BIG efforts to make sure the time she does spend with us is pleasurable.... Meals she enjoys being ready for her, being generally supportive and appreciative, programmes we like to watch together being recorded. In a blink of an eye, my baby will be wanting to walk away from me, and I'm trying very hard to give her reasons to want to walk back again!

Surely it needs to be a combination of punishment and of more positive steps such as doing together.

Have you a DH? How does he get on with getting through to your son?

What is your son doing online? Is he allowed free access to play what he wants? Volatile 13 year olds can seen as fair game for bullying by older kids. He might be getting really frustrated with the games and other players then taking it out on you.

Have you set up parental restrictions on his tablet?

I raised two boys into (if I do say so myself) fine men. We had those rough early teen years, but neither of them ever called me a name. At times they said I was 'mean', 'old fashioned', 'out of touch', and argued with me. And I got some faces pulled and eyeballs rolled for not letting them do things but that's about the limit. And that's because they knew there would be loss of privileges and grounding. AND because I never called them names, either, nor did I shout at them.

But if I felt the behaviour was out of character for them I'd talk to them and ask why they had done 'XXX' to see if something was going on. If they didn't have a reasonable explanation and an apology, then they faced the consequences.

Actions and words deserve immediate consequences delivered in a calm yet stern voice. And those consequences need to be carried through completely with no backing down or cutting slack.

And yes, if you don't nip it now, it will get worse.

I have a 16 year old and if he ever dared calling me that the phone would not be delivered back the next day nor would he be seeing friends or anything.. Games console would disappear as would any further privileges of any sort until I felt he had actually understood how to change that type of behaviour..

I wonder op from what your saying at school is it very routine set up> and at home this is less so ? Perhaps have a set routine for him at home complete with " no name calling"

DD2 hated me through out puberty, i found a poem she wrote at 14 where she called me a heinous bitch and blamed me for all negative events in her life and hated me. had i found this when she was 14 i probably would have felt very similar to you, however i found this a few months ago, she is now 18,tells me almost everything about her life and choice quote of the day "I'd either have dd1 or you as my maid of honor" (shes not getting married just thinking ahead), things get better.
My dd similar to your Ds was very angry during especially at me. I'm afraid you are a perfect target, I work full time this meant i saw daughter rarely and the only time I did see her it was to inflict rules, I think with him staying away during the week you have a similar problem. Short term obviously give him consequences for the cruel behaviour, but long term try and see if there is a way you can spend time with him on things hes interested in, or teaching him to do something that gives him extra responsibility (as a young teenager he now has a lot of grown up thoughts but no grown up things to do). My relationship with dd eventually improved partly naturaly and partly because we started working on her uni applications together and going on visits, similar to your ds very academic so preperations began at the start of year 12. I think had i began taking a greater interest in her hobbies earlier our relationship would have heeled quicker though.

• during puberty

"Piece of purple sky, I was very upset when he said he wanted to board. I asked him over and over if he was sure."

Most people don't allow their child to chose their High school and certainly wouldn't let them choose to board.

He's angry and by the sounds of it, he often has been angry. Have you properly explored were that is coming from? "He's lovely at school", well he isn't at home, so is there something going on for him to feel the way he does, was that explored?

You had to run downstairs because you were so angry, does he ever see you controlling your anger?

My middle DD had anger issues, they stemmed from her Dad's death. Looking back I should have put more boundaries in place, not ignored as much as I did.

She was a different person by 16. Keep up removing his phone etc at night, they need that break and supervision.

X post with a few posters.

I don't think it's about keeping up the discipline "or it will get worse".

I think the focus has to be building a better relationship with him. One which fosters respect for each other.

Having a few similar probs with my ds who actually apologises for his rudeness sometimes the next day. I ask him why and then he tells him what I have done and then we discuss it. Sometimes it's cos he feels an inbalance-I expect him to do something straight away but doesn't work in advance is one example. I read somewhere that teens rebel to exert their independence and usu with the person they feel closest too. Although this doesn't excuse rudeness I know. Bloody hardwork and upsetting though isn't it so I fully empathise!

Yes it will only get worse.
And no - he's not normal.
I would simply take everything off him and keep it for a quite a long period of time, probably until the end of the year.
no child would be allowed to speak to me like that without consequences.

Another option is to talk to the school.
I work with troubled teens and many of them are angels at school then foul at home.
I find involving school can bring it to the surface and stop it being hidden a bit like domestic abuse which thrives on secrecy.
I'm on my 4th teenager and definitely agree this isn't the norm. All of mine have sworn in anger but not directly called me vile names.
I'd make a very clear statement to him that this will not be tolerated and what will happen if he does it again.
He's 13 and needs to be reminded of respect.

Bloody hell. My son wouldn't speak to me like that and he is in his 30s.
I think you have to set boundaries with consequences from the start. It's so difficult to change behaviour like that once your child reaches their teens.
My daughter was a problem in her teens and it took a complete change in the way I dealt with her to put it right. It was a horrible time and really difficult to stay firm but she must have had some boundary because even then she would never have sworn at me.

I agree with pp who said devices downstairs only. (Once you decide to give them back). Have a basket in the kitchen for charging. That way it is his job to put it on charge and in the basket as he goes to bed. You can (and must) check he is doing so, but then you are in charge of the discussion and he is in charge of putting it in the basket, so you are not “taking it away”.

As for “needs it for revision” - tough.

Many years ago, before smartphones and tablets, the advice was always to have a family computer in a family room. Now who knows what they are doing and seeing on the Internet?!

So he came out of his room this morning with a bruised cheek and jaw. Claimed it was from trampolining yesterday. It can't have been. Shocking.

Has he been punching himself?

He denies it. Insists it's from the trampoline. He does flips and spins. He's rather good.

Still no gadgets.

A tolerable day. But then he started bullying 5 year old ds. I asked him to stop. He kept yanking the TV remote away from ds3. I asked him to stop. He told me to shut up.

I told him to go to his room. He just went out into the garden. I had to get dh to help me get him into his room.

I hate that he has no respect me for at all. He hates me. Can't speak to me civilly.

I really don't think we will ever have a relationship.

Dh thinks he needs a psychiatrist after he saw the bruises this am.