That this is a good example of the difference in the genders

[walkswithmydog]

en.mogaznews.com/World-News/915265/First-woman-to-join-infantry-regiment-quits-after-two-weeks.html

Doesn't this just show that there is no such thing as gender neutrality, there never has been and never will. Women aren't suited to certain roles, and vice versa.

I would not want a physically demanding job.
But most of my friends actually do do these kind of jobs and are super fit. The women I know work clearing trees and green growth from canals (only women on team), as a plumber, as a heating engineer, as a roofer, as a police diver. All of these women are lesbians and therefore they are able to defy societal expectations in a way most straight women can't.
When I went to Iceland it was noticeable that the road crews were made up of virtually equal women and men.

french of course most men wouldn't, but it's only men who do the job, many had no choice.

So how is it relevant as to whether or not women might want to do the job, if men don't generally want to do it either. As you say, most men take on those jobs because they need the money. If women need the money, why shouldn't they take them on too?

If you go to my DH's home country, you will see hundreds of women lugging heavy loads around building sites. I doubt they want to do it, but they need the money and in their society, they are seen as capable of doing the work.

runrabbit because it ISNT a criticism, just common sense. I cant understand the arguments tbh, it's like everyone's screaming "you're wrong" but can't explain how i'm wrong, well not a logical explanation.

And working on the bins is no more a physically demanding job that being a nursery nurse

More OP logic:

OP: most women wouldn't want to do heavy, dangerous work and that proves that they are not suited

MN: most men don't want to either

OP: "of course most men wouldn't, but it's only men who do the job, many had no choice" and this proves that women are less suited

If you were the only woman I had ever spoken to, OP, I might well conclude that women are less suited to jobs involving logical thinking. But fortunately most of us tend to look at a wider sample before we come to conclusions.

Love that WW1 and the mines are being used as examples of women not wanting to do those jobs. Pretty sure that the vast majority of men wouldn't be keen either.

With regards bin collection etc I imagine that has a lot more to do with social expectations of women as well as the fact that as they are already male dominated it is no doubt harder for women to get a chance.

Why are people seeing it as insulting even?
I'm a woman, and i'd hate to do the sort of work some men do, i wouldn't be physically capable. Does that make me any less of a woman? Does it hell, makes me a truthful one though.

OP. You realise many women work in the military now?
They have to be physically capable to do so, for example combat medics carry a shit ton of kit with them and I wouldn't dare call then weak .

I find your attitude sexist that only men can do physical jobs, which is so so false. Many men can't do physical jobs either but they don't get bashed online.

OP
I was a supermarket shelf stacker as a student. It’s relentless heavy work working an 8 hr shift lugging trays of tins etc on to shelves. Clearly they must have thought I was a bloke.

It's true women invariably don't want to work on building sites or do other heavy manual jobs because they are clearly at a physical disadvantage in these jobs. This is obvious, but so what? Why does it matter? You don't have to match men physically to be considered equal fgs! Just do what you're good at - more "feminine" jobs should be considered just as valuable. I don't see why people get worked up about this kind of thing.

Love that WW1 and the mines are being used as examples of women not wanting to do those jobs. Pretty sure that the vast majority of men wouldn't be keen either.
But they still did it, they had no choice. i'd have HATED it. So would most women i believe.

As other posters have pointed out, who does what work is a very cultural thing.

In Iceland there are more women on road crews than in the UK- doesn't surprise me at all.

In West Africa, at least until very recently (may still be the case), nearly all the heavy farming work was done by women, while men dealt with the more "talking" roles of local government.

In the UK, most of the heavy nursing work, lifting and dealing with potentially violent patients, is done by women; in earlier times, people wealthy enough to pay anyone to do it at all would probably have employed a male servant and if we go back to the Middle Ages hospital work was often done by men.

"Love that WW1 and the mines are being used as examples of women not wanting to do those jobs. Pretty sure that the vast majority of men wouldn't be keen either.
But they still did it, they had no choice. i'd have HATED it. So would most women i believe."

Yes, but if most women would have hated it but done it if they had no choice, then that makes them no different from the men who also hated it but did it because they had no choice.

Obviously, not all women would have been physically suited, but then a very large number of men were also rejected from active service for being physically unfit.

Otoh there were women who were so keen to serve that they deliberately sought out frontline posts, or even joined allied armies where active combat was allowed.

walkswithmydog Sun 27-May-18 11:52:45

"I'm a woman, and i'd hate to do the sort of work some men do, i wouldn't be physically capable. Does that make me any less of a woman? Does it hell, makes me a truthful one though"

I am a woman and I was physically capable of doing the same heavy physical work men do. So I did it and I was good at it. Does that make me less truthful than you?

walks

I really dont understand why you are struggling with this

Yes, most women dont want to go down a mine or go off to war

It does not mean that women as a sex are unable to do those things

Based on a sample size of 1 🙄

I've only skim read the thread but OP I find your train of thought and logic pretty depressing.....and uneducated.

Just because you've not seen women do particular roles doesn't mean they don't. And the reasons why women are underrepresented in particular sectors goes far deeper than someone just not wanting to do that job. The same can be said for men and caring professions such as nursing and childcare.

Views like yours hold women back and contribute to deep societal stereotypes. I despair ...

As an example of women in frontline combat, Flora Sandes

I would “HATE” to be a teacher and have to deal with lots of children or worse a nurse and deal with sick children. I would also HATE to have to deal with anything intimately physical like washing or caring for another human in general. A lot of my friends feel this way. I am a woman. Therefore women are not suited for teacher or care roles.
I have seen plenty of men in these roles. I assume they hate it too, but have to do it as they are men. Therefore men are better suited to these roles.

My DH would hate to do some of the 'male' jobs you describe. Does that make him less of a man?

. This is obvious, but so what? Why does it matter? You don't have to match men physically to be considered equal fgs!
Of course it doesn't matter, this is my point. We are most certainly equal to men, in many ways we are far far stronger. The point of my thread is, we are different, and acknowledging that we aren't all suited to the same jobs isn't a sign of weakness at all. To me that isn't what feminism is.

OP you've had your piss-poor logic and reasoning pointed out to you and now you're getting upset. It's quite funny

What we are objecting to is not you speaking the truth about yourself, OP: it is trying to use your own experience as some universal standard that should decide what other women would or would not be good at.

We have had several women coming on pointing out that they have served or currently do serve in the Armed Forces and love it, others saying that they or their friends work in physically strenuous jobs and love it: why should their actual experiences carry less weight than your musings about what you might not like?

I might as well use my dd- determined not to have children because they get in the way of a career- as proof that women are unsuited to childrearing. Because, hey, she is a woman and that's how she feels. She would hate it, so no woman should ever think about it, because it is clearly wrong for women.

We are most certainly equal to men, in many ways we are far far stronger

Example please?

Why are we angry?

Because those of us who do these jobs, and do them damned well (construction worker here) are fucking sick to death of the constant, low level attitude that we can’t / shouldn’t/ shouldn’t want to do the job.

I’ve had to prove myself over and over and over again. It gets old.

And THAT is why women often drop out or don’t progress beyond the training stage, the unrelenting pressure that you shouldn’t be there. Not that the job is physically Beyond us.

Bad science OP. Read up on 'statistically significant'. Spoiler: this isn't it. Fallen out with your wife?