What is reasonable and fair? To buy 'in' or not to buy 'in'?

[BlueAnchor]

Really impartial advice needed hence the impartial bullet points below.

So...Two adults have lived together (not married) for the last 6 years.

• Adult 1 - owns the house, following divorce, pays small mortgage & running costs of house. Equity in the house of £230,000. Has lived in the house for 15 years. Has 2 adult DC's, who lived in the house as children, now at uni.
• Adult 2 - pays food costs and 'treats'; tv packages, holidays, trips out, weekends away. Has 4 adult DC's.

The house is being renovated.
*Adult 1 wants to remortgage in one name, to do the refurb.
*Adult 2 wants to pay for the refurb and be legally entitled to a share of the house (proportionate to contribution)

• The value of the house will increase once refurb is complete.

*Adult 1 is concerned about security and independence; horrible divorce (a long time ago) not sure of jointly owning the house even in small proportions
*Adult 2 wants to feel the house is shared, with joint decisions taken. Adult 2 wants this to be a family house for all DC's and GC's.

• Adult 1 is unsure of adult 2's DC's and their attitudes to money.

Adult 1 and 2 love each other very much and are very happy!

Wow! Happy to answer any questions in return for your thoughts on resolving this.

I think it is fair that you offer to protect his money. I wouldn’t add him to the mortgage I would just write a letter confirming that you will repay him if you separate.

On a side note I don’t think your kids need to be commenting upon the fact he is t paying rent when you basically said he pays for everything else!

So, confession time and many thanks for all of your thoughts and objectivity.
As you don't know either of us your comments are really interesting.
In my mind adult 2 isn't a cf, this is a caring adult who works hard and happily provides in lieu of rent. Adult 2 is pushing to invest in the house so that the house becomes 'theirs' together; choices made together, the refurb becoming much more of a joint venture and a 'new' home. Adult 2 is sensitive to adult 1 saying unintentionally 'my house', rather than 'our house'. Adult 2 feels the lack of joint home gives a lesser stake in decisions.
Adult 1 does sometimes overrule on 'housy decisions' and frequently slips with 'my house'. Adult 1 definitely wanted to sell this house and buy together; finding a suitable property over a 3 year search has led to the decision to extend and refurb. Adult 1 feels that the holiday each year and weekends away balances the living costs and mortgage. Adult 1 has a thought that adult 2 is living in a much more expensive house than adult 2 could buy. Adult 1 sometimes feels that provision for a 'family home' is through this adult, rather than through adult 2 and EW.

Both adults are in a very committed and super happy long term relationship, having been together for 8 years. Adult 2 would definitely remarry; adult 1 not fussed about marriage; both laugh and joke about this! Friends are ready to buy their bridesmaids dresses!!!

We are still talking and haven't made a decision yet. BTL possible. Adult 2 would still prefer to invest in the current house, giving adult 1 to opportunity to invest jointly in a BTL too. Adult 1 and 2 would then have joint investments, though both realise this would be proportionate to money/property brought into the relationship, including sorting pensions. Anything decided would be legally sorted. Both have met with a financial adviser. Adult 2 is less financially driven and more focused about equality and place in the relationship.

So, yes. I am adult 1.

Thank you so much for giving a bigger picture, no easy resolve!

Get married. Then you're both secure.

I wouldn't get married and I wouldn't allow anyone to have a stake in my financial security, tbh. Just no, no, no!

Adult 2 sounds like a free loader. Has lived rent free for 6 years, doesn't pay towards the house at all, but wants a share of it? No thank you.

The house is Adult 1s house. They bought it, paid for it, brought up their children in it. It's theirs. Adult 2 has no claim to the house in any way.

Very convenient that your partner is more interested in "equality" and "joint ventures" when financially they're bringing a lot less to the table. I don't think they are "less financially driven" they sound like they want to get their finances sorted on your tab.

Obviously you're very happy in this relationship, which is great. But don't let that cloud your judgement on what would be a terrible financial decision for you. The majority of people on this thread are telling you not to give a stake in your house. That doesn't mean your partner can't have equal say in the refurb.

jaxhog I'm afraid past experience tells me I am no more secure married than single. Certainly counted for nothing first time around. In fact as the person with the larger amount of capital I am probably most likely to lose out by marrying, other than having everything financial legally tied up....which is what we need to do anyway.

Keep your house in your own name and encourage him to buy a retirement property to rent out at the moment. There are some fantastic ones at the moment which are a very good investment. He then has somewhere to go if needed.

Step children can be very vicious in these situations and you need to protect yourself. If your partner dies, you will be very vulnerable and will not need to deal with greedy children.

I can see both sides of this. I wouldn't want to be adult 2, living in someone else's house with no security. Likewise, if I was adult 1, I wouldn't want to be giving away a share of my house.

Maybe it would be best to sell the house. Adult 1 and adult 2 then both put the same amount of money down as a deposit on somewhere new, and that is home for both of them. With the leftover money from the sale, adult 1 can make provisions for adult 1's children, like a trust fund or deposits for a first flat for each child. That way, 1 and 2 are living together as equals and joint partners, but adult 1 can still give a lot to their kids and doesn't have to put it all into the pot.

If I was adult 2 there is no way I'd be paying for any of the refurb

This could have been me and my dp.

I actually agree with adult 1. If adult 2 wants a fair share in the house then they need to get the house valued and adult 2 gives adult 1 half of the equity as it stands now. They then pay an equal share of the renovations and agree the property is joint owned.

But, this has to all depend on ’if’’ adult 1 is happy to do that. It’s adult 1 house and I completely understand them wanting to keep it that way for security reasons. Adult 2 has been living, pretty much rent free, so can’t complain too much

OP, I'm with you as adult 1 on this.
However, holidays and treats should be split 50/50 in my opinion otherwise adult 2 footing the bill is enabling adult 1 to build their assets whilst having very little to show for themselves.

Ultimately, adult 2 has moved into adult 1s family home.
I'm always wary when people want to do joint ventures knowing they are bringing less to it. It's the property equivalent of someone always wanting to split the bill is the person who cocktails and the most expensive dish on the menu.

While I wouldn't give away half my house I would allow somebody to buy into it. But then only if they are both in a committed relationship.

A2 needs some.financial security and in no way should.be paying for anything for the house unless they are able to buy into it.

OP, I do completely understand where you're coming from but I think your OH is getting a bit of a raw deal here - you say you sometimes think your OH is getting to live in a nicer house than they would otherwise be able to. That may be true, but they either live with you in the nice house or they don't live with you at all since you are unable to find something you both want to buy. I assume at no point did they say they wouldn't live with you unless it was in a house of X standard.

You also say that you feel that the holidays etc balance the mortgage and living costs. Do you acknowledge and understand the point though that your mortgage and living costs represent an investment in an asset, unlike your OH's spending on fun stuff?

I think you ought to keep looking for something to buy together.

When I bought a house with an ex, I paid the deposit which I had protected.
And any remaining equity would be split.

6 months later, we split, he moved out.
At the same time, the credit crunch happened. He just signed the house over to me as there was no equity for him.

So whatever the value the house is now, I would get Adult 1 to protect, whatever Adult 2 puts in, I’d get that protected for them.

Any remaining equity to be split.

*Adult 2 sounds like a free loader. Has lived rent free for 6 years, doesn't pay towards the house at all, but wants a share of it? No thank you.
Cherry picking the information given!

1. OP says that whay adult 2 pays is is reasonable

1. Adult 2 wants to pay for the return

refurb

So tricky, seems opinion on here is that we are both 'freeloaders'!! 😉 - me for taking a share of the treats, him for not paying towards bills!
TBH I am a little shocked that I am seen as the freeloader ( fairly expensive home owner, mortgage, bills??)...tho thinking about it I don't consider him to be that either!

It has made me consider how we planned this. Should we have just bought together straightaway; truth is his EW stalled the divorce and therefore his capital was still in the family home. He was renting as an interim measure when I met him.

I am sure we will work it out, neither one of us is going to put the other at risk. He has said he is worried that if I pay cash for the £100,000 refurb and borrow a little more on the mortgage I am the one who is legally responsible for that.
I am worried that he hasn't yet made any other investments.

We did look to buy another house together, but after 3 years of looking and pulling out from one house which the survey showed had serious structural issues, we are still here. Financially it is much wiser to extend here than buy a similar sized house. I wouldn't take any money for the refurb from him, (I can pay and finance it myself), unless he was then legally able to claim a proportionate share.

Maybe in time, once this house is complete, we will sell and buy again. Unlikely though we are hoping to make this house just what we want it to be.

Cherry picking the information given!

I don't see how. They have paid no rent nor mortgage nor bills nor running costs of house, but wants the house to be shared. How is that cherry picking? Its precisely what OP said.

So, yes. I am adult 1

Ohh, didn’t see that coming 😉😂

Miggeldy but only shared proportionately to the amount invested.
House would be valued. Say A2's £50,000 is12% of the value, A2 has a 12% share of any rise in value plus his £50,000 investment.

Confession specially for you Serious 😉

And from then on bills/ treats would need to be shared too!

But do you want to share what is 100% your house? I wouldn't.

£1000,000 refurb is a heck of a lot of money. I'm guessing that is a fairly large extension. Which possibly means if you were to split the house would be too big and no longer suitable for you as a singleton. So it wouldnt be a big deal to sell and buy sonewhere more suitible.

I'd consider allowing your partner the chance to buy a share into your house. But you should both consider legal advice.
It is very difficult to live somewhere that you have no equal stake in.

Why are you paying for a huge extension when you have 6 grown up kids between you? Who's going to live there? Surely you'd downsize and invest the equity for the future or BTL?