AIBU to think that religious events / beliefs don’t exempt people from being considerate neighbours?

[BogstandardBelle]

We live in the ground floor of an apartment building. Our upstairs neighbours moved in two years ago, an older couple. We don’t really know them, but have spoken in passing.

Most if the time, it’s fine - they don’t make much noise, just the two of them. But frequently - on festival / holidays associated with their religion - they invite their entire family to stay for several days. This means up to 6 adults and 4 young children in a 2 bedroom flat. They don’t go out often, not even with the children, except for the adults going to worship. The kids make a hell of a racket - jumping and running on wooden floorboards. In the evenings they eat very late, very long meals which involve singing, chanting, clapping and moving around scraping chairs up till midnight or later - and still the kids running around / crying / shouting. And we hear / feel it all, every time. DH joked last night that he was starting to hum along ;-) it keeps our own children awake and makes it difficult to relax in our own home. It seems to be every other weekend atm.

They also keep leaving the back door to the building unlocked every weekend as their religion does not allow them to use any electrical devices at this time (front door has an electronic lock). We’ve had a spate of break-ins to the building and been warned by both the police and the management company that we must all ensure that both doors are secure.

I think we should say something - ask them to stop being so noisy late at night basically. DH thinks there isn’t any point - it’s part of the way they celebrate their religion and they aren’t going to change that.

Who IBU? Other than the neighbours!

So as not to drip feed, I’ve not mentioned the religion by name (though I know it’s dead obvious to many which one it is) because its nothing to do with the specifics - it could be any religion with its particular (noisy) rituals and beliefs. So do religious beliefs trump being a considerate neighbour?

No, they shouldn't trump being a considerate neighbour. Definitely not.

Intrigued wondering what religion it could be though!

Religious beliefs don't trump being a considerate neighbour. I'd even point out to that family that if their decision to leave the door unlocked results in you losing as a result of a break-in, that I'd be suing for all uninsured losses. Religion or not, they don't have the right to put your safety at risk.

Er, Orthodox Jews?

They should be a considerate neighbour.

Leaving the pemises unsecure is out of order.

Eleanor My gut instinct is orthodox Judaism

Thanks, MaisyPops.

I am pretty ignorant about this faith, I must admit.

I'm thinking Orthodox Jews too

I'd keep locking the back door. Your security (and your insurance) trumps their religion.

Well assuming it's Ramadan, I have a feeling the can be exemptions permitted, so if not locking the electronic door is having an impact on security, maybe could they could ask their religious leader if an exception could be made for that. You can but ask.

You’re right, the religion has nothing to do with the specifics, they are just bloody inconsiderate. Maybe the relatives live in detached properties and are unaware of the nuisance they are causing when they come to stay. I would have to say something - be sure to leave religion out of it - and escalate it to landlords or building management as necessary - you can’t be the only ones being disturbed.

(ready to be told I've assumed wrong)

Well, dunno how I'd tackle that, tbh. You could at least beef up your own flat's security?

Complain to the management company that the building is being left insecure it is unreasonable to make a decision to compromise other people's security. I wonder if it might affect an insurance claim is this was a known and tollerated situation.

I've worked for many Orthodox Jewish families in the past. They were the quietest, least troublesome people anyone could wish to have, at any time, Sabbath or otherwise.

@Damson music is haram so that rules out Ramadan. Not to mention Ramadan lasts a month and people celebrate more when it ends.

Nope it’s not on. Is it happening at the moment? If they’re Orthodox Jews then there’s the sabbath meal but today they shouldn’t be loud and lairy. There have been two
Minor festivals this week. One is lag b’omer last thurs. I’d complain whatever’s going on though. It’s totally not ok especially in an apartment block

If they can't lock the door because it's electronic, then surely they can't open it either? Just lock it, surely then it stays locked? If their religion prevents them from going out/entering their own home they might rethink the rules.

Lol at the posters assuming the family are Muslim. What ignorance.

I’m very reassured to be told that I’m not BU. Yes, it was bad last night (Friday) with my visiting PIL being kept awake till midnight with singing and other noise. From what you’ve said, and I’ve read, I think it is “just” the Shabbat. We’re in France so sunset isnt until after 9pm, so even though they’ve got 4 little kids they don’t get going till after then!

Everyone here lives in apartments, so they should be used to the etiquette. I’m sure it’s hard to keep the children entertained - but they never seem to take them outside to run off energy or kick a ball around (we have a massive park round the corner and a smaller one over the street), they are cooped up inside all the time.

Yes, they are Orthodox Jews and highly observant ones at that. Our area is becoming very popular for Jewish families to live in as anti-sémitisme is on the rise. Our neighbour told us he moved here after he had a knife pulled on him in the street where he lived before.

flashnazia
ONE poster made an inaccurate guess. No need to call them ignorant.

Well, yes... But the first religion suggested, multiple times was Orthodox Judaism. Just the usual UK non practising not really Christian guesswork.

So, uf you were inferring some sort if Islamaphobia,
you don't really have a point.

They’re Orthodox Jews clearly. I expect your area doesn’t have what’s called an Eruv which is an almost invisible wire at a very high level often running several miles which makes a theoretical enclosed area. If it doesn’t the literal interpretation will mean that they don’t carry on the Sabbath and therefore won’t push a buggy, let the children play football etc. Hence the kids are cooped up and running wild. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask them to keep the noise down after a certain time. It will all be quite late at the moment as the sabbath isn’t finishing until 10 ish. In the winter it’s all done by about 5pm

Thank you racecardriver, I've not had much sleep and realised I was off mark after I posted. The Muslim family I know have mentioned for a post-sunset meal (not the big one a at Eid) so I made an erroneous assumption.

What sounds frustrating is that it’s always in your building. The love should be shared around everyone’s home surely? And the noise kept down. It makes me wonder if the neighbours complained too much in the other family members buildings.

Speak to them ! Aimer ton prochain