To be irritated when people confuse 'middle class' with 'super rich'

[Echobelly]

Obviously, this is not an issue that will cause anyone to man the barricades, but I do get annoyed when people talk about 'middle class Arabellas riding their ponies' (that's not middle class, that's posh! though I know in rural areas having a pony might be more ordinary) or the Mail yesterday had a piece claiming that having a second home in the UK and a third abroad was 'the ultimate middle class hat-trick'. Uhm, middle class people are often struggling to afford one house, let alone 3. You're thinking of people of 6-figure City salaries who get million quid bonuses!

I suppose there is a slightly more serious side to this in that posh politicians like the Osborns and Camerons of this world always liked to claim they are 'middle class' - presumably in their terms this means 'not everyone in our family has a title'. And if they think middle class = multiple homes and kids in private schools, they won't understand actual issues for large swathes of the population. They won't understand that middle class people can't just sell one of their homes if they're in a spot of bother, or don't have a trust fund and might be finding it hard to save for good pensions or savings in general on top of living and childcare costs.

But I don't get the point of this media misrepresentation - just to sow more envy amongst people by making them thinking everyone else must be doing better than them, and that sells papers?

Super rich is people who have multiple estates (not houses), private jets, multiple supercars and yachts.

What you’re describing is upper middle class OP.

I agree that 'middle class' is not really income related. Having ponies and second/holiday homes is not really to do with class either, lots of folk around where I live have horses as it's a rural area. Many tradespeople seem to be comparatively well off - as PPS have said, plumbers etc, more likely to have holiday homes etc but I wouldn't think they call themselves middle class?

I think upper class is the gentry & actually doesn’t mean they are rich. Upper middle class are the Middletown’s etc.

I think perhaps people have perceptions of what a MC existence is or should be but because property prices are so skewed these days it’s hard to define if looking purely at income. A 60 yo ex cleaner can have more mc trappings than a 28 year old doctor living next door.

Barbaro it doesn't put me in a better/higher class than you though, just makes me richer. Btw it isn't me with the second house anyway but you get my meaning. That is not class, it is a financial difference.

"Middle class" sometimes means something very different in the UK, compared to what it would mean in countries with comparable wealth distributions. In most places it would mean someone who neither poor nor rich, i.e towards the middle of the wealth distribution. (And it would be about money, rather than cultural heritage.)

I've seen a description of what it meant to be middle class in the UK that said something like, if you are so rich you don't need to work, but aren't a member of the aristocracy, you are middle class. You are in the "middle" between the aristocracy and people who need to work for a living.

I think nowadays a lot of people in the UK use middle class in the more widespread sense, but some remnants of the old idea of "middle class" hang around to cause confusion.

As someone who grew up elsehwere, if I describe myself as "middle class", I would mean I'm ordinary, like most people. But to some people in Britain describing yourself as "middle class" is putting yourself above 99% of the population, so I'd never do it.

The mail and the like dont define classes just on wealth. Upper class is all about breeding. So you can be a millionaire but never be upper class. Its all bollocks really.

Interesting thread in that it makes it clear (as others have said) that there isn’t one definition of what the different classes are! It all confuses me a bit to be honest

I got “elite” in the bbc test. I’m still middle class though!

I got established middle class on that quiz yet would describe myself as working class

Haribols brilliant!

I agree with you OP. It irritates me when rich people are referred to as middle class, even if technically that's correct (if you accept that only aristocrats and gentry are upper class). Why not just say rich if that's what is mean.
The idea that prince William married a middle class girl, when she's the daughter of millionaires for example...
Also, like you mention Cameron and Osborne. Cameron's wife has a title and he's a fifth cousin to the Queen.

"We own 4 houses. I am working class. HTH."

Do you mean that you do a manual job or just that your parents did? Either way, you no longer count as working class. HTH.

Gwen the OP was talking about the odd pony here or there not Cameron or Osborne though?

Again Gwen why can't the person who now owns 4 houses still be working class? Back to Rooney and his wife who doubtless own 4 houses, they may still be very proud of their working class roots and not want to be regarded as middle class?

"That Rooney football chap is rich but clearly not middle class and never will be."

He's not working class either now. He's rich, of working class origin.
One definition of middle class is not just professionals, but also people who own their own business (so the plumber mentioned above is mc if he owns the business, working otherwise) and people who are rich but not upper class. There's also a grey line for 'intermediate' workers, office admin etc. who used to be called C1.

It is so much more than wealth though. All the cultural indicators cannot just be aquired by osmosis can they?

"Gwen the OP was talking about the odd pony here or there not Cameron or Osborne though?"

No, she mentions Cameron and Osborne in her OP.

"why can't the person who now owns 4 houses still be working class?"

I've explained above. There are different definitions of course, but one definition is that any working class person who becomes rich is counted as middle class.

"they may still be very proud of their working class roots and not want to be regarded as middle class"

We only get to choose which class we define ourselves as, we don't get to choose which class others will put us in.

I know some uni lecturers who call themselves 'poor'. I can't stop them saying it, but I still know it's bullshit.

"All the cultural indicators cannot just be aquired by osmosis can they?"

It depends what the definition is for doesn't it?
Will they be accepted by their neighbours? Maybe not.
What will they be classed as by the govt, or any market research surveys they do, different answer.
Traditionally, tradesmen who owned their own businesses were seen as middle class for politics, but working class for newspapers. Different organisations classify differently.

Sorry I don't agree with you and you can keep on explaining all you like

Manners, newspaper preferences, accent, voting sway - so many indicators

Holiday destinations, food and beverage preferences, pets, hobbies - the list is endless

"Sorry I don't agree with you and you can keep on explaining all you like smile"

And I don't agree with you that people keep their childhood class all their lives either. I actually think it's detrimental to attempts to improve social mobility if we have loads of middle class people identifying as working class because granddad was a miner, never mind that they themselves went to Oxford.

its to do with how many horses you have in front of your carriage according to my grandfather

No longer about the carriage horses, Its all about the hot tub these days isn't it.

You have one you are not middle or upper class