To be irritated when people confuse 'middle class' with 'super rich'

[Echobelly]

Obviously, this is not an issue that will cause anyone to man the barricades, but I do get annoyed when people talk about 'middle class Arabellas riding their ponies' (that's not middle class, that's posh! though I know in rural areas having a pony might be more ordinary) or the Mail yesterday had a piece claiming that having a second home in the UK and a third abroad was 'the ultimate middle class hat-trick'. Uhm, middle class people are often struggling to afford one house, let alone 3. You're thinking of people of 6-figure City salaries who get million quid bonuses!

I suppose there is a slightly more serious side to this in that posh politicians like the Osborns and Camerons of this world always liked to claim they are 'middle class' - presumably in their terms this means 'not everyone in our family has a title'. And if they think middle class = multiple homes and kids in private schools, they won't understand actual issues for large swathes of the population. They won't understand that middle class people can't just sell one of their homes if they're in a spot of bother, or don't have a trust fund and might be finding it hard to save for good pensions or savings in general on top of living and childcare costs.

But I don't get the point of this media misrepresentation - just to sow more envy amongst people by making them thinking everyone else must be doing better than them, and that sells papers?

[Anewme2018]

I think the whole class obsession needs to die. I’d rather have the freedom of being rich than being upper class etc. So you’re middle class, so what? You’re broke, you’re a selfish rude wanker or a complete thoughtless dimwit, but hey you’re “middle class, upper class etc “ get you... aren’t you special!

[borlottibeans]

1. Class is cultural as much as financial. It's possible to be middle class and have no money, and also to be working class and own a second home. This is because a plumber can very easily earn a lot more than an academic, for example. It can also be about upbringing, so for example someone I know who has taken comfortable early retirement from a professional job, owns his nice house outright, and does arty/booky hobbies, considers himself working class because he grew up in a 2 up 2 down terrace and his dad was an electrician.
   

1. This is why 'middle' class splits down into upper middle, lower middle, lower upper middle, etc etc.
   

Or alternatively, it's a load of bollocks which we use to mask cultural differences between people who legitimately have different priorities in life, and to get us to argue amongst ourselves about that while the very very wealthy continue to increase their wealth and power at our expense.

[HubrisComicGhoul]

Class has a very complex history. But every group below upper class only exists because the upper class know the importance of "divide and rule".

They need us to be fighting amongst ourselves and keeping ourselves separate, otherwise we would group together and depose them.

We need to acknowledge that even the best doctor in the world cannot work effectively in a dirty hospital or one where there is no running water. Our way of life depends just as much on the cleaners, plumbers and electricians as it does the doctors.

This is not to say everyone should be paid equally, but that everyone contributes to society, everyone is necessary and should be respected equally. Class definitions break this down and pit us against one another.

[lljkk]

I thought "middle class" in UK was inherently sharp-elbowed aspirational, so by definition not posh.

[DameSylvieKrin]

You're confusing upper middle class with middle middle and lower middle.

[DuckingMel]

I am a foreigner, so don't really fit. However, I've been brought up middle class(ish) by two professionals, relatively well off. In my family there is a huge emphasis on education and being all-round cultured. I think this makes me middle class. However, even with (nearly) 4 degrees, I am on a below average income and live in a council house (with professional partner on an average income), so would seem to working class.

I did the BBC class test a while ago and got "emergent working class" (if I remember correctly). This means highly educated and cultured, but low on income and assets. That's what happens when I'll mental health and an interest in important, but low paid, areas of work come to play. I wish I'd loved to go into law or accountancy, instead! That way I might some day have my own home and maybe even that pony. And a pension would be good.

[siwel123]

This whole class thing is confusing

[exhaustedpigeon12]

Class and income are really not connected! Ds is at private school, and some of the “poshest” people we know are broke. On paper I’m a single parent, living off a tiny income and struggling. I never finished my degree and although I own a business, it’s by no means a financial success (yet!) yet I would say I am probably upper middle due to upbringing (boarding school) / parents / social circle etc. I would also say, no one I know in real life gives a toss about these markers. I know some one who owns a castle; but they don’t have any other property and drive absolute bangers for cars. What does that make them in the daily mail ‘3 homes to be middle class’ guide to society?!

[AllMYSmellySocks]

I think middle class is fairly broad so can range from a single mum working as a nurse and really struggling to get by to a banker earning a million a year. I agree though that it's crazy to imagine third homes and ponies are standard middle class fare.

[Bluntness100]

I also think you're somewhat confused. These people are still middle class. Middle class covers a whole spectrum of incomes and is normally defined by being a white collar, educated, professional. Thay can be someone on 35k a year or 350k a year. There is not an upper income limit there.

The people you refer to would indeed be classified as middle class.

[QuestionableMouse]

Eh its all relative isn't it?

To me on about £10k a year someone owning their house and getting £50-60k a year is rich.

[Echobelly]

@littlegreyhare yes, I'm totally aware that having a London home is worth a lot!

The British class system is a weird beast indeed and there is such a chasm between what you can afford in London or elsewhere, and obviously very different ideas about what is middle class.

[littlegreyhare]

Yes but you are still confusing having money with class. That Rooney football chap is rich but clearly not middle class and never will be. You can't buy into it and maybe he doesn't want to anyway?? Arty bloke on Gogglebox is mc but clearly doesn't have a bean.

[Snitchesgetcandy]

I think your perception is a little out, especially with the ponies. I’m from a very working class northern town and know many people with horses all of whom live in very standard 3 bed houses and work very normal jobs (nurse, office work, retail assistant ect). I don’t think owning a pony makes you middle class unless maybe your pony is some very very expensive pedigree/Grand Prix level animal

[lastnightidreamtofpotatoes]

A poster on a previous thread said she was a single mum on benefits and bought her dd a pony as it was cheaper than a weekly trip to the cinema. How would you categorize her OP?

Posh/MC/super rich are all very subjective terms and the first two are not necessarily synonymous with having money. I have seen threads here where a poster thinks her baby having a Sophie Giraffe toy and clothes from Next equates to being MC. Equally I know people who I would consider MC and posh who own a property portfolio worth millions who eat toast for dinner because they think they are paupers.

[DuckingMel]

Modern class test if anyone is interested: www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973

[DuckingMel]

To correct myself, I came out as "Emergent service worker"

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Pony ownership spans all the socioeconomic groups, absolutely all of them. Professionally I have attend ponies whose owners are on benefits and can't pay their bill till their benefits come through.

[LapinR0se]

I’m supposedly elite according to that BBC test so I’m not convinced about it tbh

[Gaspodethetalkingdog]

Super rich in the U.K. now are usually foreign - Russian Chinese, Saudi etc. Most of the of aristocracy, even the Queen, are not that wealthy, by their standards.

Middle class are doctors, business people with their own companies etc.

A lot of not well off people own horses, it is the food that costs the money for horses, sadly because of out of control breeding of low value animals any idiot can get their hands on the poor things...

[Barbaro]

Just going to point out as a horse rider, owning a horse doesn't mean you're rich, it means you're poor. It all goes on the damn horse lol. Well mine does at least for all the food he consumes, the vet bills, the rug repairs or new rugs after he trashes them, the new saddles because the old ones don't fit anymore.

But yeah more than 1 house isn't middle class to me. That's upper class.

[littlegreyhare]

Why is it upper class to own more than one house? Just means you are better off

[Barbaro]

That's why, you're better off. You have money in the form of multiple houses, while it's not doing anything but gaining interest currently, you're still much better off than someone with no house. Puts you to a higher class to me.

[lastnightidreamtofpotatoes]

I did the above test (long term carer on benefits but out I have £100k in savings. I am a precariat, the most deprived group apparently 😀

[bigKiteFlying]

I think the main issue is there aren't clear everyone agreeing definitions of different class.


So everyone ends up talking about slightly different things assuming everyone means the same.