Why have people started using reflexive pronouns so much?

[Flippetydip]

I seem to hear a lot recently of "what can I get for yourself?" or "could you send it to myself with a, b and c copied in".

You get something for yourself, I get something for you. I send something to myself, I send something to you.

Is this now considered acceptable English?

i don't think i have ever heard it

Midsummer's day is around the first day of summer - the "Midsummer" referred to is historically the midpoint of the growing season, halfway between planting and harvest - and not as the name would suggest "the middle of summer". Folks celebrated by feasting, dancing, singing, and preparing for the hot summer days ahead.

@SilverySurfer I think the 'could of' abomination comes from the contracted 'could've' because it sounds similar - but, like you, it drives me insane. Terry Pratchett cleverly uses 'could of' in his books when Cut My Own Throat Dibbler speaks.

@AntiGrinch - Wow YES!! That's such an oversight by me - I don't think I've ever used the phrase, but I've certainly never registered how awful it is. Although this new knowledge will certainly add to my grammar pain and grief, I'm very glad to be aware now. I'm hoping I've never inadvertently made anyones ears bleed by using it. Thank you!

@user1470055656 I think people think myself and yourself are formal versions of me and you I don't know why, but this made me laugh out loud heartily - it just hits the nail on the head HAHA.

Finally, @mommybunny
AntiGrinch your post on the verb to deserves to be framed.

Yes! Yes! YES!

@user1484424013 I think this thread was intended to be lighthearted and to bring racism into it seems to be a little odd. In fact, this is one of my other irritations, people who talk about 'racism' coming from people who are, in general, the same race.

I was wondering though, as you're so offended by judgemental and/or 'racist' people, how you feel comfortable calling our government a Third World government. The use of the word 'your' would mean you're directing the comment at the people talking here, who are mostly British and this would be 'racist' by your definition. Additionally, you appear to have made a judgment on our government too. Luckily for you, our Third World government has contributed to a sizeable bail-out for your government, on more than one occasion.

sigh I was really enjoying this thread, back to the fun .....

This is the first I've heard of this, but even to me it sounds strange. For some reason, when I move back here I began to say can I get it, which I never used to see in Asia . One day somebody commented on it, also you need instead of University. I never used to say those things. I speak nine languages, and seem to pick things up very easily even without wanting to. So I have to be very careful now when I go to coffee shops to say can I please have a mocha.

People don't read, that's the problem. If they did, they wouldn't say "should of" or "I use to" or "I was sat" or "I need to loose weight" or "it's non of your business".

All of these errors make me wince.

Basta I agree.

No easy way to explain thr "It is I" issue so here goes. Sorry if someone has already explaonrd, I have skipped the middle part od the thread).

The verb "to be" is a verb of incomplete predication (unless it means "to exist").

In essence, for a sentence to be complete, it needs a subject (noun or prounoun) and a predicate (verb), e.g. The man eats. The woman stands.

"I am" is not a sentence (unless it means I exist). It needs something to complete "am" e.g. I am a doctor or I am tired. The bit that completes it is the predicative nominal (if a noun, e.g. "a doctor") or predicative adjective (e.g. "tired.).

A predictive nominal or adjective must agree with the subject. Subjects are always nominative (subject case) not dative or accusative (object case). The only words in English that decline are personal pronouns (I and me; she and her; he and him; we and us; they and them) and who/whom. The first one in each pair is nominative. Therefore, "It is I" is correct.

It is completely understandable that this is quite an alien concept for anyone who only speak English, given we don't naturally have a feel for subject and object cases. It is easiest to see this in Latin, but knowing any modern European languages other than English will help.

Before anyone comments, if you were asked "are you a doctor" and you say "I am" this is not a full sentence.

Therefore "It is I" is grammatically correct. However, "It is me" has been in common usage for so long that it is acceptable (sort of like squatters acquiring a right to ownership of property after living there for a long time).

“Off of” 😭

knowing any modern European languages other than English will help.

"It is I" is grammatically correct. However, "It is me" has been in common usage for so long that it is acceptable

But don't the French say "C'est moi", not "C'est je"?

Your explanation was very interesting, but I feel like your conclusion should be rephrased as: "It is I" and "It is me" are both accepted usage, so both are grammatical. Just because one formulation might not correspond with the grammar of Latin, does not make it ungrammatical - Latin and English are different languages. (The idea of imposing Latin grammar on English is where nonsenses like not splitting infinitives comes from).

Anyone with a copy of CGEL who can comment?

Therefore "It is I" is grammatically correct. However, "It is me" has been in common usage for so long that it is acceptable (sort of like squatters acquiring a right to ownership of property after living there for a long time).

Thus illustrating that English is primarily a descriptive, not a prescriptive, language.

I think people still easily say "this is she" but "it is I" is fast falling out of use.

Seneca - do you really think outside of quite formal settings that people (especially in spoken conversation) say "This is she".

"Where's Lucy? She said she'd be here by eight."
"Hang on, look over there. This is her now."

I can't imagine anyone saying "This is she now" but maybe I move in the wrong circles.

An ex-colleague was one for the reflexive pronoun abuse. She thought it sounded more formal and professional. I thought she sounded like an idiot who didn't know how to use the English language properly.

Thinking about it, I also think "It is I" just doesn't work in every situations.

"Have you seen this old photograph? John reckoned that's you in the background. I'm not so sure"
"I remember this. Yes, it is me."

"It is I"? I don't think so!

Dad perhaps with the demise of landlines and everybody having their own phone, 'this is she' is dying out. Back in the day when the phone rang, and I answered and the caller asked for me, I would say "this is she." For what it's worth, I can't remember the last time that happened.

Yes, "this is she" does make me think of someone answering the phone in their poshest voice. But would you ever say "this is she" in reference to a third person, eg Me: "Hello, Seneca, I'm looking for someone called Mary", (Seneca indicates woman standing next to her): "This is she"...?

I had a high floutin auntie she habitually referred to herself in 3rd person,such as this is she

just because one formulation might not correspond with the grammar of Latin, does not make it ungrammatical - Latin and English are different languages. (The idea of imposing Latin grammar on English is where nonsenses like not splitting infinitives comes from).

Not "imposing" Latin grammar. Just saying you can see it in Latin more easily.

I see you point that both are correct and agree in effect. Long lasting squatters and purchasers are both (eventually) equal owners of land in the eyes of the law. But you still feel the squatters got there not by doing things correctly but because of long-term usage.

English is the only language (that I know of, so not 100% sure) where you can even split an infinitive. So the rule can hardly have been borrowed from another language, let alone Latin. I agree the so called rule against split infinitives is nonsense, albeit that it sometimes has stylistic merit.

But would you ever say "this is she" in reference to a third person, eg Me: "Hello, Seneca, I'm looking for someone called Mary", (Seneca indicates woman standing next to her): "This is she"...?

Depends. I might. (Former English teacher so knowledge of old rules dies hard.) I'd probably just avoid the issue and say "this is Mary." But I would never say "it is I." That's a pedantry too far.

My colleague used to do this all the time. Drove me (unreasonably probably) mad. “Could you hand that to myself?”

Had to laugh at this. I’m an estate agent and a young lad in my office does this all the time 😬😬😂

I had a high floutin auntie...

Sorry, I can't help myself... It's highfalutin.

Long lasting squatters and purchasers are both (eventually) equal owners of land in the eyes of the law. But you still feel the squatters got there not by doing things correctly but because of long-term usage.

Love this analogy! But surely you’re maligning the poor squatters here because they are responsible for so much language change and enjoyable MN grammar threads.

As for “it is she” I thought it was something that was artificially introduced by the posh pretentious monks with a view to make the language more Latinified but that English simply doesn’t need it because we rely so heavily on subject - verb - object and therefore that it’s obvious what we’re talking about.

I would say that the loss of case everywhere except pronouns is the reason it came about too. I mean we’re so used to SVO and as the case system weakened we would look at a sentence like “it is a boat” not having a clue (and not caring) whether the boat was in the nominative or accusative, subconsciously feel accusative because “after verb” and then apply same rule to pronouns which do change for case, and there.. bob’s your uncle “it is her” is born.

I live in a little bubble in the West where no one would dream of saying "It is I", however shorten it to "'tis I" and say it in a pirate accent and you just about have it... still makes me giggle listening to a full and rich Bristolian accent...

For what it is worth, I "squat" and say/write "it's me/her/him"... The clue is when you say "It is me who is right". If "me" was the correct case, it would be followed by "whom".