Women who have children before marriage

[FissionChips]

..but get upset when their partner does not want to/ has not asked to marry them , yet still insist they are too traditional to even contemplate asking their dp to marry them or just discussing it like adults.

I dont get it. Most of the complaining women give the child their partners surname as well which isn’t even traditional if the parents are not married. They live together for years. They are in no way following tradition.
AIBU to not understand why they lie about being “traditional “?

@fontofnoknowledge LV found in 2015 25% of women under 40 out earned their male partners. (I haven't bothered to look at the number who earn the same) So it isn't a miniscule amount.

Love my half-brothers so much (and it hurts me to type the half as I just refer to them as my brother's). So glad I have them.

@TheFatkinsDiet more likely the surviving partner would have to find a job. My mum had to - hence her bringing up all her children to work and have working spouses. (Oddly what she said and how she acted was completely different.)

You get better benefits of you work 16 hours then not at all.

@PoorYorick some men see widowed women with young children or women with young children whose father's have fucked off, as people they need to care for. I know people who ended up with fathers because of that who they love/loved dearly. Though some didn't end up with the younger sibling(s) they were hoping for.

I guess not everybody is as selfish as chav.

bananafish81
From your clip.

"Although cohabitants DO HAVE SOME LEGAL PROTECTION legal in several areas, cohabitation."

Not disputing what you said but there's the rub HM Courts often do and have decided on merits of an unmarried/co-habitators contributions when dealing with properties and children.

May not have any straightforward litigation but is evidence in a number of statutes pertaining to family law. I take it from your missive you have taken family law at university?

I can only go on what I have personally experienced and see with associates who have co-habitated or are single parents wanting maintenance etc.

One partner I personally knew actually got taken to court and was awarded half his business (Think he was even on Carn;t pay we'll take it away), because the courts awarded in the ex girlfriends favour due to co-habitation.

@bluebug

It was a hypothetical; what if your dp dies AND you have to give up work. Not just if it’s a sick child, but also the surviving partner. I was merely asking if @oliver might miss the iht break in the circumstances where she is left “widowed” and unable to work. Whatever the reason may be. It’s not happening and hopefully it never will. But I could say the same about an ugly, expensive divorce. It might happen, but hopefully not. It’s all about risk and choosing what risk you’re willing to take. For @oliver, she won’t risk getting married in case it leads to an ugly, expensive divorce. Some people might decide not to risk being unmarried in case they stay together till death and they don’t want to lose out financially.

My perspective is different as I know a good few divorcees who happen to have done alright (not exactly living the life of Riley, but who is these days)? But that’s just my particular circle. As always on MN, it’s obvious that our personal experiences have a huge effect on the opinions we share and decisions we make.

No @moyesp. I was copying and pasting from the articles I posted. That's why I put them in quotes. I am not a lawyer, hence why I deferred to those who are specialists in family law. All the law firms. They're not my missives. They're the law firms. That's why the links come first and then the statements.

And obviously I consulted legal advice about our own situation and the implications of marrying or not marrying. Because I am not a family lawyer.

Blue i said my views were black and white. But i dont see half siblings as proper siblings, and see stepsiblings as complications from someone elses family. I just dont want that for my kids, i dont want them to have to compete with new kids to a new partner. I dont want a stepdad for them as to me thats putting them last and i wont do that.

moyes you are just not getting it, are you? Child maintenance is separate from spousal maintenance, and even the latter is on the wane as a 'clean break' is now favoured. Rights for unmarried partners are not enshrined in law, and usually when assets are ordered to be transferred by the court it's because of child maintenance issues, not 'co-habitation'. Protection for that doesn't exist in UK law, but you keep looking for it! FFS.

And IIRC, bananafish is a solicitor. You are clearly not.

Sorry; “not just a sick child, but also if the surviving partner becomes too sick or disabled to work” is what I should have said. Unfinished sentence there.

Sorry, banana, x-post!

PoorYorick Sorry love but my mum a young lady of the swinging sixties and early seventies with flower power etc. Think she did it because they all promised her marriage and did not deliver!!!!!
She finally did get married though and never had a child for him. He's now a pensioner and chuffed to bits as he's got 10 daughters/Sons and in laws to look after him in old age. Plus 12 grandchildren to boot.
ALL HALF brothers and sisters and all successful in their own way.
plus and minuses here. But our mum before she married did get compo from ex partners that were awarded by courts. If as you are stating she had no rights how come she was awarded assistance?

*I wouldnt ever have wanted half or stepsiblings, i think they happen because adults put their sexual needs above existing children

So if you are widowed at a young age you should not get married again.

So are you saying if you divorce and have children and meet someone new with children you should actually just live together so they wont be step siblings

The whole blended family idea is deeply personal. A successful blended family depends on so many factors.

I know some wonderful, happy blended families, but the ones who have had a harder time have put me off wanting one for myself.

I’d never say never, if dh dies or ran off with a colleague or whatever, but I’d be very wary. It’s a bit like @oliver and marriage I guess! Personal experiences or the experiences of acquaintances have such a big influence on our decisions.

*died

Ffs

what if your dp dies AND you have to give up work. Not just if it’s a sick child, but also the surviving partner. I was merely asking if @oliver might miss the iht break in the circumstances where she is left “widowed” and unable to work

Well I will soon find out as dp is terminally ill.
Bowel cancer stage 4 and spread to lymph nodes, stomach and has had his spleen removed because it was riddled.

We live well within our means. House not flashy or anything.
Interest only mortgage so by the time that is taken off and worth split it is below IHT. I am named on the life insurance policy, his pension, will etc
Dp doesn't have anything in his name.

I’m so sorry to hear that @oliver . Sorry that my hypothetical was a bit insensitive in the circumstances.

"All the ones who 'can't afford a wedding' are usually the ones who really can't afford to not be married."

^^ This, in spades.

So very sorry to hear that @Oliversmumsarmy

moyes

You are remarkably opinionated about family law in England and Wales, despite evidently not knowing anything about it or even realising that it is different to the law in Canada.

Meanwhile people here who do know what they are talking about (at least two of whom are actually solicitors), are telling you that you are wrong.

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider your position?

Oliver, I'm so sorry.

There was a great thread a little while back where the OP was pregnant with DC1, unmarried, and was planning to give up her job to become a SAHM. Her OP asked what she should be thinking about finances wise to get in order before she did so

Every single post, an enormous onslaught of them, said 'Get married'

OP said that wasn't really something they were interested in, however after the implications of becoming an unmarried SAHM were explained to her, she said she had no idea that it could leave her in such a vulnerable position, and spoke with her DP and made arrangements to find out about a quick registry office marriage ASAP

It was really heart warming. Although people who hadn't RTFT kept posting 'get married' long after she'd said she'd taken the advice on board and they were now planning to do exactly that before the baby arrived. 'Get married' became the new 'cancel the cheque'

Thats ok. Just never come across a couple who were getting a divorce who one party didn't get thoroughly screwed by the other at some point.

My own father never paid a penny towards my upbringing despite him becoming v.v.wealthy. Brought up on one of the UKs worse council estates.

All I see if it gets to court is someone else telling you what you can and cannot have and then being left at the mercy of an exh/w who then has to decide whether they are or aren't going to abide by the judgement.

You are not able to go back to court as courts and solicitors cost money and you haven't got any.

Friend is disabled and it doesn't matter what the courts would award her she hasn't the money to get a court hearing because she has wasted what money she did have on the previous court hearings

Olivers
no im saying i (personally) wouldnt have a relationship until my kids were 18 whether widowed or divorced.
Im so sorry about your dp.

Oliver so sorry to hear that

My parents were married and like your father my father fucked off when I was young and paid nothing. I too was raised on a council estate. So now I prefer to depend on myself. I think I would get married if I met the right person but I am reluctant and probably won’t now.

I have made a good life for myself and my dcs and it’s hard work but worthwhile. I think it’s important not to denigrate unmarried mothers as society does. My dcs have half siblings- I encourage them to get on and treat like siblings and they do for the most part.

But so sorry to hear about your partner and I hope things are as easy as possible for you.