To be worried about Norfolk holiday as an ethnic minority?

[Faffandahalf]

I’m from London.

Going to north Norfolk in the summer. It’s been booked. Research showed it was a beautiful part of the UK. Want to do more UK hols.

We’ve been to Cornwall which seemed ok, the Cotswold we were openly stared at.

But now I’m doing some more reading and turns out Norfolk is horribly racist.

We are Asian. Me DH, 2 young kids. My sister is coming too...she wears a headscarf but very modern dress...jeans and hoodie etc. I don’t wear a headscarf. But we are all brown!

Are we going to get trouble? We’ve booked a cottage in a lovely little village which I imagine doesn’t see many brown folks.

I don’t venture out of London much and forget it’s a different world out there sometimes.

I just want a nice holiday without being gawped at.

Or it may be because there are lots of racist fuckers in Korea.

Possibly. or there are a lot of people who have never seen a white person before.

I went to eastern Europe about 15 years ago to visit a friend and my friend explained that people there have seen Germans, and have heard of Japan, but that's it, so be prepared for some stares. I had people walk right in my face and take a picture while I was having a drink. Not pleasant. But that's different from being followed by a group of scary looking white tattoed men (also on that trip), and being approached by a group of young children who said "hello. Do you know what time it is?" and run off giggling (also on the same trip).

If we aren't going to distinguish between the seig heil racists, some innocent curiosity, some not so innocent curiosity and little children trying out the one english sentence they know, then the word racist has no meaning.

OP: take the children crabbing. You release them all at the end but it's very exciting when the grab on to your line and you pull them up the quay. I went crabbing at Blakeney aged 8 and it's one of my clearest memories from childhood (over 40 years later!). We had a bucketful of crabs at the end and then released them so they could scuttle back into the water. It was fascinating to watch.

or there are a lot of people who have never seen a white person before

don’t patronise me. I live here. I know the culture. There is racism here and plenty of white people, we live in Seoul, it’s hardly a backwater.

Done talking to you.

don’t patronise me. I live here. I know the culture. There is racism here and plenty of white people, we live in Seoul, it’s hardly a backwater.

I have never been white or been to Korea, so I don't know your situation at all. But fine. I wasn't saying your were wrong. I was just saying there might be more subtlety sometimes.

Done talking to you.

bye.

I lived there for 5 years until 2003, moved there from London. Have to say back then I was shocked by the casual racist comments thrown around there. I heard many comments that made me wince! That was a long time ago though, I'm sure things have changed a lot in 15 years. Back then it was almost exclusively white British but now I hear there is a big eastern European population, so I expect people are a lot more open minded.

no, not really Lala

We are brown people who have holidayed in norfolk and have survived! Enjoy the fish and chips and icecream.

An interesting post that came up on my FB made me think of this thread.

I don’t appreciate being told to just smile and be nice and get the chip off my shoulder. Unless you know and have felt bothe overt and insidious racism you can’t understand people’s (perhaps trivial to you) concerns.

It bothers me that I am expected to just put up with staring and gawping and general awkward atmosphere because people are nice not racist and just haven’t seen many brown people before.

As I said I am going to enjoy the holiday. Thanks so much to those who offered visit suggestions and those that tried to understand my perspective.

Faff I posted earlier about my 1 and 2 yr old children gawping at a black African woman. What's the best way to deal with this from your perspective? As a child I was told it was rude to stare. I feel they're a bit young for that. I certainly wouldn't want to offend anyone. In this case I ended up chatting to the person and she chatted to the boys and, as children do, they soon got over their curiosity.

God people are rude . Gawping and ignorant comments could ruin a holiday regardless of intention. Sorry not to put you off - Iv never actually been to Norfolk so I'm not actually suggesting people there are ignorant

It reminds me of last summer I was away in the Yorkshire dales and stood waiting to be served at the bar and a black lady and her white friend stood next to me and this older guy at the bar got chatting with them just general Small talk and then he very quickly asked " so where are you from them " to which she responded in her obviously broad Yorkshire accent " I born and raised here love " I was Absolutley cringing for the man , why ask that ? She Spoke as Yorkshire as you get so we both know what he was really asking . Knob

Nottalotta. Kids are kids. My son began calling black kids in books ‘chocolate faces’ because he didn’t have the vocabulary or know to say black.

If my son stares at people I do tell them not to and I ask them to quietly tell me why they are staring and we have a conversation about it.

But that’s hard to do with a 2 year old who shouts out ‘look fat belly!’

I don’t have an answer but sounds like you handled it great.

Thanks Faff we were in close proximity so I couldn't really speak to the children without being overheard. I actually had the same today with a lady with thalidomide, also in a cafe. She engaged with the children first as they were looking and they ended up chatting away.

Faff

I don't think anyone is asking anyone else to grin and love being pointed at, giggled at, or even stared at.

But here is the problem with what the brief picture/passage you posted. It doesn't differentiate between people who live within a racist structure and want to change it, and those that want to perpetuate it. It labels everyone as racists (implicitly, at the end of the quoted part on "coming closer to the racists"). What then? No dialogue? If we aren't going to come closer, what's the alternative?

Separating the malicious from the well-meaning but ignorant is important. I have had the "where are you really from?" all my life (being an Indian from America), and jumping down these people's throat for trying to be friendly isn't going to help. I politely correct them by telling them no that's where I was really born and really grew up, and I think the information you were after is from where is my ancestry.

it sounds like Faff doesn't think Norfolk is for her as a person from an ethnic minority. That's a pity because if we all took that view we would never mix with each other. I like in a majority non white borough I think in London and there has been some "white flight" from the area over the decades but hopefully we all get along pretty well. If I decided to leave because most people were no longer white here that would be a shame (and of course I appreciate that as the majority white person averaged across the UK it is not always identical both ways round and then we get on to the imported caste system of course too which is in some ways even worse... oh dear. The sooner we can all just be humans, male female or anything else the better).

Our favourite holidays are were we do not see another person for miles and miles and miles so I suppose that is discrimination against all humanity except the nuclear family. In fact when I am entirely alone on acres of land that is nirvana. Those people - you know who you are - you come on to a beach and we are in place X - there are miles of sand around where no one is and where do you plump yourselves down but right near us. Why do they do that?

It’s the summer holidays - Cley and the rest of the Norfolk coast will be heaving with tourists. You will hardly get a second glance during your week or two there. You’ll hardly living there FT in the off season! There are bigots everywhere but I doubt whether you will encounter much casual racism in all the tourist frequented hotspots which is more or less the entire Norfolk/Suffolk coast in July & August. They just want your money! There is more angst against wealthy outsiders (normally Londoners) pricing the locals out of the property market. Ironically, the more ex Londoners there are, the more ch chi coffee bars, etc and the more attractive it is for tourists/outsiders to visit/move there.

Yes, because the average black person looks so much like chocolate

The coastal path at Cley & Blakeney is beautiful but my favourite walk is the popular and easy stretch between Weybourne and Sheringham. Go early before the masses turn up! My second favourite is the walk from the Overstrand into Cromer. Sunday Lunch at the Grove in Cromer is fab as is a meal at the Wiverton Bell Pub which we frequented after a boat trip to see the seals. It’s a great place for a holiday - rent a self drive boat for a day on the Broads or even do a family adventure day with the CanoeMan.

I have nothing to add about Norfolk.

Yet I want to add my voice to say I am disgusted by some of the comments on here. Minimizing racism, telling the victim to buck up, being white and comparing racism to you being stared at in Marrakech or wherever, and more. I hope you all know that no black, Asian etc person feels safe around you and you are essentially a danger to them in terms of their dignity as a person. You don't get it.

It bothers me that I am expected to just put up with staring and gawping and general awkward atmosphere because people are nice not racist and just haven’t seen many brown people before.

I'm white and can't pretend to understand how it feels, but I would like to know what I am able to do to address this since my DD lives predominantly amongst white people. How do I teach her that people can be 'brown' (but not green)? Do I move her somewhere where she is the racial minority?

You teach kids not to stare at people. Everyone knows that toddlers will ignore this, but older children and adults do not have to stare. It is basic manners.

You're not moving there, you're going on holiday. The people in your holiday park are tourists also coming from your home town or background.

I htink practical advice to whites is very useful. Just make sure children read books which show all kinds of different people.

I remember a very cute statement by our 3 or 4 year old that there were people like mummy (me, white with freckles, never even tanned really), daddy (he is white but gets a sun tan i the summer) and her friend (Indian origin). What was nice is that at nursery school she just saw as one continuum, freckly white mummy, bit browner daddy and much browner friend - noticing the colour but certain not then and I hope never seeing it as anything other than just normal differences and that she saw her white father as brownish (because of the summer sun tan) which certainly logical.

bubble you don't have to move your child anywhere lmfao

The UK is nearly 90% white. It will be difficult to avoid areas where there will not be a white majority of people (nor should it be expected)
Just because an area is not 'diverse', does not mean it is racist or that hate crimes will occur.

Teach your kids what's acceptable and to respect others. My kids would be classified as white as I am quarter caste and they are white as they had a white dad. That doesn't mean i rejected my whole ancestory from my grandad