To be worried about Norfolk holiday as an ethnic minority?

[Faffandahalf]

I’m from London.

Going to north Norfolk in the summer. It’s been booked. Research showed it was a beautiful part of the UK. Want to do more UK hols.

We’ve been to Cornwall which seemed ok, the Cotswold we were openly stared at.

But now I’m doing some more reading and turns out Norfolk is horribly racist.

We are Asian. Me DH, 2 young kids. My sister is coming too...she wears a headscarf but very modern dress...jeans and hoodie etc. I don’t wear a headscarf. But we are all brown!

Are we going to get trouble? We’ve booked a cottage in a lovely little village which I imagine doesn’t see many brown folks.

I don’t venture out of London much and forget it’s a different world out there sometimes.

I just want a nice holiday without being gawped at.

OP, I get you. We live in a fairly rural part of east Germany and part of the appeal of going to the UK is getting away from the stares when I speak English to the children (or the stares because, although I'm white, my colouring is rather un-German - most, esp if they don't identify the language I'm perhaps speaking to the dc as English, have me down as southern European or perhaps Turkish and it does sometimes bring the racists out). Don't want to have to deal with it because dh and the dc are speaking German!

And similarly to you, one of the worst direct xenophobic attacks I've had to deal with was in a leafy part of Berlin, so I know it's not urban = good and rural = bad. But in Berlin I don't get the bloody soul-sapping stares.

Oh, and the town I live in is a tourist spot - people still stare, and I've had the 'whole restaurant turns round and stares when we walk in' (that one wasn't in tourist season. But still, ffs).

elderlylady the stares are so hard to deal with. It makes you feel like an animal in the zoo. Just the other week, I heard a woman shout at her kid ‘Look, an American!!!’

One, not American. Two, we live in Seoul, I’m hardly the only non-Korean here. Three - why are you teaching your child that it’s acceptable to point out someone else’s differences?

Really painful to deal with. The worst part is, I know she probably didn’t even think twice about it and didn’t think she was doing anything wrong. Koreans constantly talk about how there is no racism here - yeah, because you don’t deal with it when you’re Korean!!

I still remember being actually shocked seeing goliwogs? Is that right ? For sale in Cromer sat in the shop window Front centre loads of them. I’d only ever heard of them or seen imagines on the internet.

One of my friends is from Wisbech (Cambs) but her brother lives in Cromer.

They joke that he moved to Cromer because it's so cosmopolitan ... compared to Wisbech.

We've experienced racism where people wanted to stroke my daughter's hair because of how unusual it was - very long and a very different colour to the norm. Nobody was unpleasant but she understandably found it very intimidating.

Go and have a good time.

After having been a minority in non-white places, I would say that I have come away feeling that both sides need to participate to make for a successful visit. No, OP, you will not necessarily be welcomed with a red carpet, as you are a stranger to them. People may look but mostly its because people are curious. (What's that white lady got in her trolley, oooh look...we never see white people here etc). You do have to get over the idea that everyone is looking at you. I think a lot of that, is us projecting our fears onto others.

But I do feel that the majority of the time, that when I would smile or seek to interact, that it was positively received. Had I walked around with a face like a slapped arse, it would have been different.
To be fair, if I was walking around downtown Lahore or Chengdu, I would also be met with some curiousity/consternation and thats OK. So, my advice, is carry on as normal. My attitude is that, I have every right to be somewhere, doing what I am doing. Disarm them with charm and soon you won't feel so self conscious.

Careful, brizzle, certain posters on MN simply won't have it that white people singling out a non white child to stroke and coo over their hair and how 'gorgeous' and 'exotic' it is is anything other than them being nice and friendly and that you're a racist for thinking otherwise 🙄

I don’t want my children being stared at. Some people think that’s ok, not a big deal. That I jusvhave to deal with ignorance because it’s a small place etc.

It's shit that you have to deal with this. My
OH and I don't have any children but we've spoken about how we'll speak to them regarding things like this, and I reckon the best approach is honesty. It was a surprise to me as someone white how casually and openly he and his family all talk about abuse they've had and places they avoid, as I think because racism isn't part of my daily life or aimed at me it's seen as much more of a taboo topic, but to him and his family it simply cannot be as it's overtly there day by day. His dad still has kids in his shop point and laugh and make jokes about his turban. In this day and age. OH was sneered at on the train station platform last year when he offered to help a lady who couldn't find the platform she was looking for, who spat 'I don't talk to the likes of you' at him.

So I think if we have children and they pick up on it and ask why or feel uncomfortable the best thing is just to be honest. Don't say anything before going as it'll probably make them watch out for it more or feel pre emptively uncomfortable, but if they do encounter stares by all means talk about it. Explain it's because the people here don't usually see anyone of a different colour so they gawp, and it's shame nobody ever taught them that it was rude.

silentpool, Putting the onus on the op because she is 'other' is grim. It's no different to expecting women to smile because a random bloke tells them to. Had I walked round with a face like a slapped arse...
Seriously? Should she sing, dance and generally perform for the natives too...

gilead yup

Spot on gilead.

Nice exaggeration about the red carpet too.

Expecting not to be stared at and made out to be the 'other' because of other people's inherent racism is not expecting a red fucking carpet, it's expecting to be treated with some basic humanity. Fucking hell.

Being based in a rural Norfolk village you may get "who's this visitor" looks regardless of what you look like. If you are able to frame it that way in your head it may feel less intimidating. My mother's family have been holidaying in and retiring to north Norfolk for several generations and I suspect my sister and I still have a chunk of "outsider" to get around.

When visiting my granny as a child, fun was had by some if they decided we were sounding too Australian, by lapsing into broad Norfolk accents :)

But actually, I suspect tourists, holiday cottages and the like are nowadays a critical part of the local economy.

I hope you have a lovely holiday, just be yourselves and be friendly if you have the opportunity. Feel free to PM me as to where you're staying if you'd like!

silentpool I really don't care if people are 'curious', it's fucking rude.

I get the stares all the time in Korea, and yet, people manage to not stare at the Korean couple having a massive fight, or the drunk guy who is staggering about on the subway. And yet, the perfectly average looking woman reading a book on the bus? Let's stare at her for the entire 20-minute journey and maybe whisper with our friend about her too.

They stare because they see me as not really human, so they think it doesn't really matter if they stare at me.

It's just rudeness and excusing it is ridiculous. We live in a modern world, everyone sees people of different colours on TV and the internet, there's really no need to be shocked if you see someone who isn't exactly the same as you.

I also live in Norfolk and to say that we are all racist is very offensive, I originally come from south east London but moved here 15 years ago and the people are lovely and I’ve met plenty of people from different cultures here and haven’t seen any open hostility towards them.

eggs who said you were all racist? Cos I can’t see that post.

All that awful Norfolk-based prejudice must be hard for you to take. Chin up.

egg and I too live in Norfolk and have experienced it, as has dd.
She was home from uni last week, walked into a shop, first question: Where are you from? Answer: Norwich. Response: No, originally...

Class and race are different things. I am a working class white woman. My class means I have less power; my race means I have more power.

you are right. It's complicated. I didn't say otherwise. I was just pointing out that race isn't the only variable.

Just because we have one example of someone doing well for themselves (Sadiq Khan) doesn’t mean there is no racism in the UK any more.

He's far from the only one. I was pointing out, however, that he isn't just some nameless councilor. He's the mayor.

I am not saying this country is racism free, far from it. There is still plenty of work to do. But perspective is key. One of them is recognizing that stepping outside of London is pretty safe for non-whites, and unless I happen to be a special kind of non-white, I have a reasonable amount of personal experience in this. And pointing to 2 incidents of racism doesn't make the place racist. That really can happen anywhere.

marchin but this thread isn’t about different variables and privilege , it’s about the fact that the OP feels uncomfortable being out and about in her own country because there are still racist twats around.

The fact that there are some people who aren’t white in positions of power does not negate the fact that she shouldn’t be stared at in shops etc.

It may be mainly physically safe, but there are days that I know it deeply affects my mixed race kids to be treated as ‘other’. I expected better from the UK and I feel sad that for their well-being, I only really feel comfortable in the Korean areas of London.

She was home from uni last week, walked into a shop, first question: Where are you from? Answer: Norwich. Response: No, originally...

I got this a lot growing up too.

I think we need to separate instances of malicious racism from ignorance. People asking that are trying to get one piece of information but asking another. It could be malicious, but likely not. Why not correct the person?

marchin Trust me, we do. We've lived here quite some time.
Sometimes the 'where are you from' is done maliciously, particularly in instances whereby the person already knows. But specifics, many; too many to mention. All through school, through college too. Sometimes in the village, sometimes in the street. The fact is, it happens. It happens with older people, it happens with younger people, who really should know better.

We live in North Norfolk at certain times of the year, and last year we invited our African friend along. It hadn’t really occurred to us before then that those of other ethnicities are not seen in Brancaster very often, but it suddenly dawned on us as we got out of the car at the golf club. We all felt out of place. Nothing was said, I don’t remember any negativity towards us or our friend, but we were just aware that we were different and stood out a bit on the beach. Children born and bred there may well not have seen other ethnicities or religions before, compared to children growing up in London or other much more diverse cities.

I'm sure you'll have a lovely holiday, OP, Norfolk is beautiful and you've been given some great suggestions for days out.

I'm in East Norfolk which definitely lacks racial diversity, but there are ethnic minorities. There are racists too- just like anywhere. A lot of locals tend to stay local so are perhaps a little less worldly. With that in mind, you may be looked at as different although it isn't necessarily malicious: I am becoming more aware that my toddler daughter doesn't see many non-white faces and so when she does they are a 'new' thing.

but this thread isn’t about different variables and privilege,

I was addressing a specific comment about privilege. I know the thread is not about that.

it’s about the fact that the OP feels uncomfortable being out and about in her own country because there are still racist twats around.

Well, that's certainly not what the OP's first post was about. you can read it at the top of the page. It's not about the occasional stare. The specific question asked was "are we going to get into trouble?", coupled with the assertion that "it turns out Norfolk is horribly racist". Well, plenty of non-white people have posted and none of the posts indicate that a western style bar fight is going to break out if you walk into a business as non-white. While I may have missed a post, the worst thing that seems to have happened to someone is a curious stare. I agree, that's not particularly nice, but far from "trouble".

Parts of Norfolk are racist. I am from north norfolk and live here now, and yes it is racist.
People are not overly keen on anyone who has not lived here for generations.

Trust me, we do. We've lived here quite some time.

I have been on the receiving end of that comment a million times in my life, and trust me, there are comments much much worse than being asked where are you from. I am not claiming that Norfolk is a post racial eden, I am saying that it isn't a place where anything close to trouble is likely (from my limited experience) because of one's race, and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary on this thread. But not just that, when faced with questions like where are you from, which often can come from innocent ignorance (I agree, not always), I think it's much better to reply with a reasoned response then to walk away in a huff screaming racism. I can't see the latter moving us forward quickly.