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AIBU?

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Original poster

To go & speak to the teacher?

72 replies

PickYerWillyCircus · 16/05/2018 20:49

Long time lurker, occasional poster & sporadic commenter here. Have NC.
Year 6 SATs today & DDs teacher flicked through her answers & indicated that an answer was wrong & that she should change it. That's my first issue. Isn't it supposed to be a proper test? With no help? Turning my DD into a cheat?
Secondly, DD is a perfectionist. The teacher had also indicated that DD should focus on a certain part of the question which then changed the method required to work out the answer. DD did this method & changed her answer.
After the test, teacher mentioned a few people having an issue with this question & went through with them on the board. Turns out DD had done it correctly in the first place. She put her hand up straight away & told teacher this but the teacher said she hadn't seen it, apologised & said something along the lines of 'ah well, it's only one mark'.
DD has a flair for the over-dramatic so of course, she had a cry in the toilets & has moaned all evening. Not getting full marks is important to her, especially as she'd been correct until the teacher told her she wasn't.
(DD is doing great at school,btw, already has a place at grammar, I'm not too fussed about the results of the SATs - I know she'll do well, but I don't see them as having any importance tbh) She is devoed though. Wwyd?

OP posts:
JustLikeTheySaid · 16/05/2018 20:51

You need to tell the Head. This is maladministration.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/05/2018 21:04

Why is the teacher invigilating exams?

Original poster
PickYerWillyCircus · 16/05/2018 21:12

Who knows? Apparently it's her normal maths teacher. Confused

OP posts:
Fruitcorner123 · 16/05/2018 21:16

i would write to the head and cc the chair of governors they are cheating. This is really serious!

Reenskar · 16/05/2018 21:26

As a secondary teacher this is depressing and confirms my long-held suspicions that many pupils are "helped" in their KS2 results. Unfortunately these results are used to set their KS4 target grades and often seem impossibly high.

One pupil asked me "why do I have a target grade 9 in German?". I explained that it was extrapolated from her KS2 data and one of her classmates said "oh, is that when we sat in the hall at primary school and the teachers told us what to write?"! A while back a Twitter survey of teachers at KS2 found 10% admitted to being pressured by SLT to cheat.

The accountability system and targets has had such a detrimental effect on education; particularly on some pupils who feel that they are never good enough due to ridiculous targets. And then secondary teachers are "held to account" in all subjects based on English and Maths data from KS2.

The whole thing is a farce and deeply saddens and frustrates me.

But to your question OP- I think your concerns should most certainly be raised but not sure the school would act; I'd be tempted to see my MP.

Sorry for the rant but I feel so strongly about this I had to reset
my long forgotten log in details to post (usually only lurk)!Blush

MemorylikeDory · 16/05/2018 21:32

www.gov.uk/guidance/reporting-maladministration-at-key-stage-1-and-key-stage-2

I'd report it here without a doubt, and I say that as someone who works in a primary school and have also been over seeing SATs this week.

As for why the teacher was invigilating, a teacher can be there overseeing their class. There are certain rules that should be followed such as no members of staff alone with children taking tests. And tests are kept locked up prior to the test day and again after they've been completed prior to them being sent off for marking.

Original poster
PickYerWillyCircus · 16/05/2018 21:33

@Reenskar I recently argued with a friend about the fact that her sons school do 12 weeks of after school coaching twice a week in the run up to the SATs. My understanding is that they're mainly a test of the school so didn't see that it benefitted her child or any other to be essentially tutored for them. She was quite proud her son was getting 100% pass rates but I just don't see the point. That's not a true reflection of what the child is.

OP posts:
Fruitcorner123 · 16/05/2018 21:33

Reenskar is right about the impact at secondary. If these exams are so important they should be managed and invigilated in the same way as GCSEs and ALevel. I am secondary too and we are not even allowed in the room when the exam is on. In fact we are not even allowed to see the paper until the students' scripts have been sealed and sent off. Yet year 6 teachers are in the room with the kids and are walking round correcting their answers and telling them what to write! Appalling!. please tell the governors and if nothing is done contact the local press.

BlueSuffragette · 16/05/2018 21:34

The teacher needs reporting to the head teacher as she is cheating. However, this could be due to pressure from the head teacher! It dies children no favours at all as it sets incorrect targets at secondary school. Children are under lots of ridiculous pressure with these SATS without feeling the need to cheat to seemingly achieve better grades. Top down pressure in schools is not always putting children's best interests first.

RedHelenB · 16/05/2018 21:37

Seriously though your daughter will not go through life getting 100%. Better she accepts this now.

Reenskar · 16/05/2018 21:38

If anything it's setting them up to feel inadequate later on. I think secondary schools should be allowed to do their own tests and set realistic targets that way. So your friend's son's teachers may find themselves having to explain why he didn't get "level 8" across the board 5 years from now, or they won't get their tiny incremental pay rise. It's a joke and all the pupils I teach hate the target system (but then they are all "high ability")...Hmm

user1471530109 · 16/05/2018 21:40

The bloody primary that feeds my school is infamous for doing this. I have a class of students with 8s and 9s as targets because they all got near on 100% for their maths SATs 5 years ago.

The kids say the teacher used to place a rubber on the answers they had gotten wrong.

Of course, the parents don't complain as they are happy their child has a good grade. Ofsted haven't picked up on it either.

Makes the whole thing a farce.
My DC deliberately don't go there for this very reason. Really pissed me off. The pressure the kids are under at high school to achieve an unattainable target.

Wtf are Sats externally invigilated like other exams?!

SmileEachDay · 16/05/2018 21:40

This is why I am nearly dead with the pressure to get students who cannot access gcse English tests a level 6.

user1471530109 · 16/05/2018 21:40

NOT externally invigilated...

ilovesooty · 16/05/2018 21:43

It needs to be reported.
This behaviour isn't in pupils' interests and represents trouble for the secondary school trying to meet targets based on sheer dishonesty.

LashingsOfHamAndGingerBeer · 16/05/2018 21:44

Really shocked at this. It needs reporting. Chair of Governors and Head need to he informed at very least.

Reenskar · 16/05/2018 21:48

I'm not sure why this hasn't been picked up by Ofsted or the DfE or the media. I have a feeling the problem may be widespread and does everyone, but most importantly children a huge disservice.Sad

RhurbabAndCustard · 16/05/2018 21:49

That's surely cheating by the teacher?

So glad my DS didn't do SATS and so has been predicted middling grades for KS4. It means he can only do better.

This reinforces my opinion that SATS are a waste of time

soapboxqueen · 16/05/2018 22:09

If the teacher is being that flagrant, I would suspect the head knows.

However, unless other children will back your child up, I suspect the teacher will claim no such thing happened. The papers will be sealed up now...Or at least they should be. That's not too say you shouldn't report it. It's just something to keep in mind that your dd may find it uncomfortable being in class with said teacher.

Cheating as obvious as this is rare but fudging around the edges is more common. My head was shocked when she visited a neighbouring school to see how they did so well in Sats. 'it's cheating!' she said. Except everything that they did had apparently been OK'd by the dfe.

Class teachers oversee the tests mostly due to staffing and for keeping the overall stress level down. Keep in mind that teachers' assessment are used for part of this anyway and they are not examinations for qualifications.

Yes it is frustrating for secondaries but it is for other primaries too.

mybumpisonlypudding · 16/05/2018 22:18

During my teacher training I can across three schools that did this really blatantly and one actually asked me to do the same! They can get away with it by having 'extra support' eg adults helping dyslexic children to read exam papers (science and maths, not English). All you're meant to do is read the questions to them but all the other support staff were doing the classic 'is it a, b, C long pause or d?'
I obviously didn't do it and the poor lad was so confused as in all his mocks he'd had someone feeding him the answers. I felt so badly for him, but I just couldn't justify cheating and I'd like to think that having a realistic sats result might affect his later teaching. It probably didn't though, and I know he was disappointed with his grade.
Cheating just ruins it for everyone. I don't agree with sitting sats, but given all the cheating they are particularly pointless. Breaks my heart

eyeoresancerre · 17/05/2018 06:39

Would you be causing so much trouble if the teacher had got your child the mark instead of not getting her the mark?
I'd think you may not be marching up to school this morning had your teacher got your child 100%. This thread isn't about the teacher it's about you and you being able to brag that your child got 100%.

SavoyCabbage · 17/05/2018 06:50

This happened at the school my friend teaches at and a TA reported it. There was an investigation and the head and the teacher who did it were suspended and eventually lost their jobs. It’s a serious matter.

Feenie · 17/05/2018 06:56

This happened to my ds last year and it's very serious - I'm a Y6 teacher at a different school and would never do anything like this. The teacher shouldn't have been on her own with the paper in the first place.

However, when I reported ds's school, ST A wanted his name as well and warned me that marks may be deducted. I was (and am) beyond furious that they wanted to punish the child for an adult's serious maladministration and took it no further. But I'm convinced that suited STA just fine. Hoping the SAT police turned up every day this week at this school.

Hadalifeonce · 17/05/2018 07:11

I am a governor at local primaries,and have been additional adult in classroom for SATS this week. Everything has been done by the book in our schools, thankfully. But I am puzzled as to why a secondary school relies on SATS results for GCSE potential grades, do they not have annual end of year exams to assess all students?

StickThatInYourPipe · 17/05/2018 07:20

I remember my teacher doing this during year 6 SATS. I have a specific memory of her frowning and pointing at one of my questions. It's really poor for a school to do this but it's not new. I would speak to the school personally, it isn't fair if a child gets put into a higher set than their abilities when in year 7 based on this

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