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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that big house price falls finally on the way?

999 replies

qwertyflirty · 16/05/2018 09:23

After years or price rises, in my area (edge of London), I'm finally seeing price falls of around 15% from peak.

Lots of evidence in recent months of house price falls starting and picking up in London/South East, and usually once they start here, price falls spread elsewhere.

House prices are down on average 17K since July 2017 in London. "The average price of a home for the capital as a whole was £471,986, down from a peak of £488,247 last July."

There is little the government can do to mitigate it this time round, as interest rates are already at record lows. All signs are currently pointing to the top of the market having been reached and prices about to crash.

Such as:

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/18/london-house-prices-fall-average-uk

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-5733321/Beware-red-danger-signs-house-prices-Young-buyers-borrow-record-sums.html

www.theguardian.com/money/2018/may/12/house-prices-are-on-the-slide-where-will-they-go-now

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/house-prices-fall-housing-market-rics-survey-april-a8343561.html

www.propertyweek.com/finance/house-price-falls-continue-in-london-and-spread-to-south-west/5096455.article

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/10/celebrate-house-prices-falling-britain-property-values

OP posts:
LifeBeginsAtGin · 16/05/2018 15:29

I remember waiting for the price crash I was told was coming when I lived in Brighton in 1999.

A bit like I've been waiting for the interest rate to go back to 9%

boomboom12 · 16/05/2018 15:31

You think this one is refurbed nicer than my original one? And it might have 6 bedrooms but it’s smaller
www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=29362272&sale=72710271&country=england

boomboom12 · 16/05/2018 15:34

Mrsmadevans

I know I love it but a bit out of reach at the moment plus I’m happy where I am really as it’s so convenient as I work locally.

qwertyflirty · 16/05/2018 15:36

PowerPuffGirlBlossom

Not quite clear why the fact your aunt has had a tough life means that a load of people who have nothing to do with her ought to be obliged to work into their 70s and take an extra job to pay for the extra cost in house prices.

I can get why you're angry at her waster husband but he's not the one who is going to be affected by her house price rise.

Why is it the responsibility of her buyer to pay her pension?

OP posts:
Whatthefoxgoingon · 16/05/2018 15:36

You have been unbelievably rude to freezerfoodyum qwerty. Really nasty about her flat for no good reason. Shame on you.

Racecardriver · 16/05/2018 15:37

Whare I love tents are cheaper than your average mortgage payment on a similar property. This is usually a good sign that houses are overpriced. Not sure if they will crash though. We are holding off on buying to wait and see.

Xenia · 16/05/2018 15:38

Good point above about different price ranges. Some people have tried prices of over £2m on a few houses near me and not sold (because it is too high) and stamp duty upper rate goes to 12% at that level. yet a house a few doors up sold for about £1.3m which is (for here) more realistically priced (outer London suburbs detached).

qwertyflirty · 16/05/2018 15:38

I'm happy to revisit this thread and we can see if falls that have happened recently in the London area continue or if they were outliers and everything continues as it has.

OP posts:
PowerPuffGirlBlossom · 16/05/2018 15:39

Not quite clear why the fact your aunt has had a tough life means that a load of people who have nothing to do with her ought to be obliged to work into their 70s and take an extra job to pay for the extra cost in house prices.

Oh right, you mean like she is still working and will still be working waaaaaaaaaay into her 70s. You'll forgive me if I don't begrudge her the fact that her house has massively risen in price and she finally has something to show for all shit she has suffered. You obviously have a massive chip on your shoulder and I can't fathom why.

I fully expect to be working into my 70s, that's the norm now people are living longer.

Anyway OP, you sound lovely.

Againfaster · 16/05/2018 15:40

i cant see what your sq ft price is in comparison sorry, but from an outline thought ; extra bedrooms is where all the money is at so yes that would account for a lot.
that house does also say its gone up 300% since its last sale too?! so expectations of that type of rise continuing are unrealistic

qwertyflirty · 16/05/2018 15:40

Whatthefoxgoingon

And she was unbelievably rude about would-be buyers, saying they didn't work and scrimp and save as hard as she did.

And then she lied about it.

And then she posted personal insults.

If she doesn't like receiving it, she shouldn't dish it out.

OP posts:
PowerPuffGirlBlossom · 16/05/2018 15:41

We have such a thing about owning property in the UK as well. In many European countries it's just normal to rent your entire life.

I don't mind renting, less hassle for me.

qwertyflirty · 16/05/2018 15:42

PowerPuffGirlBlossom

Why do you think your aunt is somehow unique?

Why am I supposed to care about her but not about the people exactly like her but for whom buying a flat of their own and saving towards a pension was not a remote option?

You sound like a charmer.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 16/05/2018 15:43

Things may settle down - they can't keep rising, but they won't crash. Too much demand and too little supply.

This.

It depends on where you are in the country as to how it will play out.

One of the biggest problems is how the housing market crash is filtering through the system.

In London prices continued to rise, but this wasn't the case everywhere. In many places they have never recovered to pre 2008 prices. Where prices continued to rise, anyone who bought in the last ten years or bought for the first time after the crash continued to gain equity. If you had bought in the years shortly before the crash and live in an area which has only just recovered you didn't get that equity boost.

What you have now is a gap between people who gained equity and those who did not / those who are not on the housing ladder at all.

Those who continued to gain equity continued to fuel the market. But that is now running out of steam. The pool of those people is shrinking. So prices CAN NOT rise any higher.

Why?

Because those lower down the ladder or in areas which haven't had big price rises simply can not afford property or afford to move upwards.

This isn't helped by developers who in search of maximising their profits do not want to build smaller houses and instead have focused on luxury 4 bed properties.

The trouble is that there are too many of these and not enough smaller properties.

This comes at a time where older people, whose children have left home, are looking to downsize (perhaps to help finance their children to buy a home) so are looking for 2/3 bed small properties. But families who would normally have moved into the 4 bed properties can not afford to do so and remain trapped in smaller 1st or 2nd rung on the ladder properties. Which in turn inflates the price at the bottom end of the market.

So you would EXPECT the market to slow down, particularly at the top end. It will grind to a halt as the higher priced properties just won't shift unless they slash prices, but they will still always remind more expensive than smaller ones. Its just that above a certain price point, the price per extra m2 will be much lower. Whilst the price of 2/3 bed properties will be disproportionally high because of the short supply / high demand. But these can not rise above a certain point either.

Its like a compression of prices to a smaller range which is higher at the bottom end and lower at the top end. It looks like a drop in prices on many of the figures you'll see floating about, but the reality is that the prices at the bottom are not really decreasing.

What dictates this point is simply the amount of money people are earning. If people have no equity then this price is savings plus your multipler. If you have point 10 years into a mortgage without an equity gain from property price rises, you might be looking at around £100,000. A household with an income of £80,000 might be looking at getting a house at about £450,000 at top whack. And that price point will act as a ceiling for the vast majority. Realistically the ceiling is lower than that for the majority of buyers who are still on a good income - its closer to about £350,000.

The exception to this is those who do get help from the bank of Mum and Dad or get inheritance. In time as the baby boomers die off, a lot of money will filter downwards - but because of the weak demand for more expensive houses, again there will be less money than people anticipate from the sale of these houses.

The need to build a lot more smaller houses, in this context, can not be understated. The housing market is distorted because its top heavy but the demand is all at the bottom.

I can see this happening in my local area. The larger houses are just not shifting. The large luxury new builds are all over priced as they were built by developers effectively trying to 'get rich quick'. It won't happen. There are simply not people left here to buy those houses. Meanwhile the family houses at the bottom of the market are up just a few weeks (sometimes just days). I can only see the problem locally getting worse.

We are seeing a lot of house price slashes here this year - mainly at the top of the market. The area only just recovered from 2008 in the last year or so. Now its looking like it will dip back from there. Again, largely because of the lack of equity that younger people have in comparision to someone who had exactly the same income and bought in the same area ten to fifteen years earlier.

We have local friends who are ten year older than us on a similar income who are in a 5 bedroom detached. We might just manage a good sized 3 bed. The only difference is the rise in equity and demand at the bottom of the market.

As I say, the thing that needs to change is WHAT we are building. No amount of government schemes to help buyers can solve the problem when the problem is too many big houses that no one can afford and too few small houses which have over inflated prices that no one can afford.

Of course, the government at too stupid / have too many conflicting personal interests / too preoccupied with other issues, to get any of this.

So we're all screwed in one way or another. Whether you are at the top, bottom or middle or whether you rent.

HateIsNotGood · 16/05/2018 15:43

Qwerty - you have a very high opinion of yourself and have been very rude and offensive to a lot of posters who disagree with you or share a different perspective with different experiences to yours - which are hugely London-centric.

You are a bit of a bore actually.

qwertyflirty · 16/05/2018 15:44

Seems to be a lot of shooting the messenger here.

If you live in London and the SE and prices are rising in your area, please post proof below.

Interested to see how different areas are faring.

I assume the reality is complex and that some areas will fare better than others.

OP posts:
freezerfoodyum · 16/05/2018 15:45

And she was unbelievably rude about would-be buyers, saying they didn't work and scrimp and save as hard as she did.

Oh ffs, you know full well I didn't say that. You've chosen to cherry pick what parts of my posts to respond to, I can't help that. The point I was making is that often we do choose what sacrifices we make, I wasn't saying anyone was less worthy for it. For instance some people on this thread might choose to make major financial sacrifices in order to send their kids to private school. I wouldn't do that, but it's fine for them to do that. I chose to make major financial sacrifices so I could buy a property. Some people wouldn't do that, and that's fine too. I'm lucky to be in a position to MAKE financial sacrifices, I do realise that and I've said that several times but you've chosen to ignore it.

And then she posted personal insults.

Report them and have them deleted then.

qwertyflirty · 16/05/2018 15:45

HateIsNotGood

Do you have anything to contribute t the discussion on house prices or did you just drop in to post an ad hominem?

If you find it too boring here, there are dozens of other threads you know...

OP posts:
freezerfoodyum · 16/05/2018 15:46

I actually don't know why I am bothering to explain myself here tbh as I know full well I haven't done any of the things you are accusing me of.

People are allowed to have different opinions to you.

BlessYawnBless · 16/05/2018 15:47

Well said whatthefox.

TheWitchwithNoName · 16/05/2018 15:48

It needs to drop massively. I live in the SE and earn a good wage but a mortagage isn’t possible - due to not being able to save up the fecking massive deposit and I can’t borrow enough, even on a good wage.

freezerfoodyum · 16/05/2018 15:49

Very interesting post RedToothBrush, thank you.

qwertyflirty · 16/05/2018 15:51

RedToothBrush

Thanks for the analysis, which was convincing.

The only thing is, curiously, that it's not what I'm seeing on the ground, in my area at least.

In my area, the cheapest properties basically aren't shifting. All that's moving are mid-priced houses - I'm guessing bought by other people in mid-priced houses shifting around. Or maybe by people in top-priced houses downshifting?

Only very well-priced desirable cheap properties are shifting.

I can see why what you suggested ought to be happening.

But it isn't...at least not near me.

OP posts:
Againfaster · 16/05/2018 15:51

ive seen wandsworth mentioned a few times in here but Feb 2017 - Feb 18 overall selling price rise of 3% in wandsworth (home.co.uk)

3 % might not be amazing but it's still a rise.

isthisspring · 16/05/2018 15:55

Given the economic uncertainty following the Brexit vote it is not surprising that house prices are falling. If they crash it will not be house prices alone crashing as they are tied up in the general economy, I am happy to be corrected but I have only known house prices decline when the general economic outlook is poor. So I cannot imagine a situation where the economy is doing well, jobs are plentiful, mortgages easy to obtain but house prices have crashed. People desperate for price crashes should be looking at this in a more holistic way.

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