AIBU to think employers need to accept that people get ill sometimes

[BigPinkBall]

I’ve had D&V since Thursday and if I follow the NHS advice (which I will) not to go into work until 48 hours have passed from the last incident then the earliest I could go to work would be Tuesday meaning as I’ve already had 4 days off with a chest infection in this year, that I’ll end up having to have a meeting with my manager about my absence and be told not to be ill again for the next 12 months (as if I have any say over it) or I’ll be on a PIP.

Surely policies like this just encourage people to go to work when they’re contagious?

I would add that I don’t take a lot of time off sick. I’ve had 2 instances in the past 4 years and one of those was flu the other for surgery.

It’s all very well saying the Bradford factor should be used as a guideline but common sense is banned where I work, so someone having surgery would be treated the same as someone who takes every Friday afternoon off.

This suggests they’re not applying the Bradford factor properly. It should be weighted so that say 10 x 1 day absences should score way higher than 1 x 10 day absence.

It’s a very tricky one

In general
People work when sick
People go back to soon
Some people take time off at the drop of a hat

So trying to reconcile the 3 is hard . I have never understood why companies don’t cost for sickness and bereavement leave . We never do - and it always crops up

I've worked for companies who give an annual bonus for no sick days, that seemed to work well for stopping those who ring in for a duvet day, hangover etc.

They use the Bradford score for absences and it applies across the board.

Six sick days in a short period is a lot. People can't help getting sick but it does impact on others so has to be handled by the business.

In general
People work when sick
People go back to soon
Some people take time off at the drop of a hat

So trying to reconcile the 3 is hard .

^ this ^

Unfortunately some people do take the piss and it’s incredibly unfair on the business and other colleagues who end up picking up the slack. A couple of years ago I had someone in my dept who averaged a day off a fortnight. No declared health issues, it was usually just one or two days off at a time, with a whole variety of reasons given- headache, general aches and pains, sore throat....

Policies have to be in place. Of course most people wouldn’t take the piss but some do

I worked in my previous workplace for 11 years and had a grand total of 2 days off sick in that time. Then my DM became terminally ill. I used up my allocated week of compassionate leave being with her for her last few days at a hospice 200 miles away from where I live which left no allowance for arranging her funeral, going to it, grieving etc. I was advised to take this time as sick leave even though I wasn't actually ill - IMO I was going through a natural process that thankfully doesn't happen very often. I ended up taking 3 weeks off 'sick'.

On my return I was greeted with an attendance improvement plan as my 'sickness' had hit a trigger and was at an unacceptable level. My previous record had counted for nothing. I too was asked how I could avoid further occasions of illness. I replied that now both my DPs were dead this sort of sickness was unlikely to happen again.

I don't work there anymore.

See this worries me. I have bipolar and severe back problems- I am unable to work as it stands, and my concern is what if I’m forced back to work? What kind of job will take me on knowing I have irreparable damage to my spine, and my mental health will never be totally stable?

For now, I’m ok. I have another few years until my next review from pip. But I have to see the job centre soon- and they want to discuss my return to work. I can’t work. I would be a liability. Last place I worked was horrendous for sickness. Everyone went in sick, it got passed around, people ended up hospitalised... and at review you were supposed to tell them you’d be more regular with washing hands which is a joke- people needed time off to recover and not breath and cough over others

@CountFosco

Not unusual for primary teachers to be sick multiple times a year. The younger the children, the higher the frequency. The coughing, the sneezing, the lack of hand washing...

And, the parents who send their child, who vomited at breakfast, into your class.

@tulippa That happened to my mum last year. Her sister was in hospital ill and because she had used up her leave being with her in hospital my aunt's funeral went down as sick. My mum was then told off for having a high sick score.

I was bereaved and got 2 days off. I came back on the 3rd day but couldn't stop crying at work. I rarely cry. So I took two weeks off sick. The provisions for bereavement are often very poor.

I agree that some sickness/absence policies are ridiculous. It's a shame that the people who take the piss with absence cause companies to treat everyone like they are untrustworthy.

I'm someone who is very rarely off work sick, and will always make the effort to go in even if I'm feeling crap. A while back, I had the worst flu I'd had in years - it came out of nowhere and I was REALLY sick. Me being me, I tried to go back to work too soon, and was sitting at my desk obviously very very sick. My boss told me I "looked like death" and ordered me to go home. Because I'd gone into work and tried do the "right thing" - it "broke" the absence and it was counted as 2 occurrences. During this time my dad was terminally ill and a little while later, he died. After his death, I was signed off work by my doctor because I was struggling. When I got back to work I had a "return to work" interview. They asked me about why I'd been off and about not being off in future. I said "I was off because I tried to come in to work and you told me to go home - and then because my dad died. In future, I'll try not to have a terminally ill parent and if you order me to go home, I'll ignore you". They had no answer.

I agree that companies have to clamp down on people that take the piss, but a little common sense wouldn't go amiss. They should look at each person/case to see if there is a suspicious pattern of absence or if, as in the majority of cases, someone has been genuinely ill through absolutely no fault of their own. It baffles me when companies think that people have that much control over getting sick/not getting sick. If I had that much power and could prevent viruses, terminal illnesses and accidents, I'd be a billionaire - not working there!

As an employer, I completely agree.

I employ people who are working on their own, so if they don't make work, then I have to either complete re-jig the rotas (which is NOT easy), or try to get childcare & do it myself.

However, I have Staff who would battle into work, no matter how ill they are (within reason), and others who will call in sick for reasons that wouldn't stop a reasonable person going to work.

But, I have to have the same policy for everyone.

The margins are so tight, that I can't afford to pay someone if they are off work sick (but usually offer that they take it as a holiday, so that they do get paid)

I think what I'm trying to say is that, unfortunately, there are piss-takers out there who ruin it for everyone else.

@crazycatgal It's crap isn't it? I know there is a need to monitor people who are off sick a lot - as much as to check that they are ok and work isn't making them sick as anything else - but I do feel some common sense could have been applied in the way I was questioned and then put on a 'plan'. It was obvious from my record that I'm not a pisstaker when it comes to sickness.

I've seen so many people take the piss with sickness and it's made me a bit cynical tbh.

People reporting sick....then there's a photo of them on holiday on FB. Or they have a back condition, but they're off on.a skiing holiday.

Some people are off every summer. Or just before Christmas into the new year.

Public sector sick pay means they really abuse the system.

It takes a lot to dismiss an employee due to sickness and you really have to have very poor attendance, not just hit a trigger.

If we dismissed everyone who hit triggers and fell sick again in the next 12 months, we'd find ourselves in Tribunal a lot.

I do tell managers to be sympathetic and not robotic like its a tick box exercise when applying the policy.

I phoned in with tonsilitis and my boss asked me to come in on light duties....which meant Working at the customer service desk on my feet all day 'light duties my ass
He threatened to write to my doctor to ask what sort of duties I can do. He was asking what my Dr said to me etc. It was a horrible way to be treated and I was so damn sick.

He questioned my symptoms and said he hadn't heard of those symptoms with tonsilitis before. Bare in mind I had lost my voice and sounded dreadful and clearly wasn't faking it at all but he still kept up the big mean boss act to try and scare me to come in to work.

Schools are the worst for this!! I’ve had d&v three times this year and always leave it the 48 hours which really pisses off my line manager - but if everyone did it I wouldn’t have been sick this often would I?!

Angers me so much I’ve actually quit because it’s easier/cheaper to just not work tbh.

I work somewhere the attitude is you should just never be sick -
Like ever.
The worst of it is people dragging themselves with their fucking germs and not doing anything useful - but they aren’t off sick and aren’t they amazing. Honestly - piss off home.
Even if you are sick it should only take one day to get better. I had flu and I went back far too early and it effected me for months, never again.

Humans get sick, get over it. Our trigger system is quite sympathetic and you aren’t penalised for absences like bereavement. Which is good.
They are annoyed at the high levels of kitchen staff absence which is usually down to D&V, which of course is ridiculous and they should be off.

Someone at my work had to use annual leave for an operation although she had proved she was having an operation

Well I’m still unwell now so it looks like I’ll be off until at least Tuesday.

My DH asked why I don’t just go in and when I said I don’t really want to risk soiling myself in front of about 50 colleagues his reply was you’ll probably be fine. I imagine it’s attitudes like that which is why I caught this bug in the first place

Definitely don’t go in!!!

We had the Bradford factor brought in at work once, they explained to us managers how we could use it to support staff but seems to have disappeared now. I think common sense is more useful, ie is anyone always off on a Friday/Monday - are they taking the piss etc. (Difficult to get away with the what’s app groups and Facebook friends around). Also if anyone has a recurring illness, then suggest they go to the doctor as they should get it looked into.
I have to say this would’ve helped me if I had not been on mat leave when I got a serious illness as I would’ve taken lots of odd days off work and hopefully been sent to the doctors. Instead as I had an easy baby, I struggled through and then got admitted to hospital as it was now life threatening.
In my department the managers definitely look at the whole picture and stand up for our team to HR if needed, but then again HR allow us to give extra discretionary paid leave where we think it’s needed. Eg bereavement as we know shit happens and we want to treat people the way we want to be treated ourselves.
I am hoping I don’t frighten people with return to work interviews, but is mostly just to record whether support is needed such as checking any medicine isn’t giving them side effects so they can’t do their job but maybe could do something else.

Sounds like you do it right altiara
I was very grateful for the support offered to me once in a back to work interview by a lovely boss.

Unfortunelty bosses like you seem not to be the norm

YANBU but unfortunately it's amazing how many people get "sick" on a Friday and / or Monday

A lot depends on the manager. Some do their jobs well and properly manage the piss takers. Others hide behind company policies and apply them to everyone without thought.

Hope you feel better soon OP.
We have a strict sickness policy at work where we are allowed no more than 5 days or two episodes of sickness in 6 months.
It is necessary because some people do take liberties but as a manager I have sometimes had to put staff on a sickness warning just because they’ve been unlucky like you rather than because they are malingers which I hate because it feels unfair.
In this litigation happy culture though you have to demonstrate that you have used the same rules for everyone.

fwiw first stage sickness warnings are mostly a box checking exercise and rarely progress into anything else so I wouldn’t worry.