AIBU to think employers need to accept that people get ill sometimes

[BigPinkBall]

I’ve had D&V since Thursday and if I follow the NHS advice (which I will) not to go into work until 48 hours have passed from the last incident then the earliest I could go to work would be Tuesday meaning as I’ve already had 4 days off with a chest infection in this year, that I’ll end up having to have a meeting with my manager about my absence and be told not to be ill again for the next 12 months (as if I have any say over it) or I’ll be on a PIP.

Surely policies like this just encourage people to go to work when they’re contagious?

Absence policies can also have the opposite effect. A friend of mine had a nervous breakdown, she wanted to try going back after three months but she didn’t because if she then couldn’t cope and had to be off again her Bradford Factor score would have been through the roof. (2 separate absenses) She ended up staying off for six months till she was 100% sure she could cope.
Again not how the Bradford Factor should be used and this was th NHS

I was seriously ill in hospital with sepsis (school were informed) but my headteacher still complained that I had not sent any work in to school. How I was supposed to do this wired up to two drips and drugged up to the eyeballs I don’t know but he said that was no excuse.

I’ve not had any other absences in the whole time I’ve worked here (4 years) it’s just unfortunate I’ve had 2 illnesses within months of each other.

Strangely I’ve always found that when I worked for smaller companies who couldn’t really afford to have people off sick they were much more sensible about it, and just let you use some of your annual leave for it (if you wanted to get paid) whereas I now work for a huge company that’s always telling us how many millions in profits they’ve made, but always keep us slightly understaffed and won’t let us use annual leave because “if you’re sick you’re not technically on holiday”

My work uses The Bradford formula. I've been a line manager for over 15 years and only once had an employer hit a trigger point. And that was because of a long term sick situation, so then when she had a minor illness in the next year she hit the trigger point. We reviewed and told HR we weren't worried. It's really unusual to have 3 sicknesses in a year unless you have a chronic condition. In which case your work should be reviewing and putting in place factors to help you.

As someone who supports managers in dealing with sickness absence, I see both sides of this.

Applying discretion leads to accusations of inconsistency and being accused of unfair treatment.

I totally understand that staff would like to be and should be treated sensitively, but it can be difficult, because as soon as you arrange a stage 1 meeting, staff become defensive. They feel they were genuinely sick and should be left alone.

The bottom line is that if you end up sick in the next 12 months, then you should report sick.

One place I worked used sickness absence in redundancy selection and we had someone come to work while very sick and they collapsed. We had to call ambulance and they were hospitalised.

That’s what I mean the Bradford Factor is actually a good tool when it is used properly, indivially and then intervention put in place to support staff once a trigger is reached. Also there is no doubt it also stops people just taking a duvet day. Mind you I have heard of people using up their Bradford Factor points and having time off because work can’t do anything if I don’t hit a trigger. Arseholes.
I have also known company’s set really low trigger points
But I have also seen it work really really well as a support mechanism which is the purpose for which it is intended

And no ..You can't use annual leave for sickness. If you want to do that then you don't let your manager know you're actually sick.

Annual leave is for rest and recuperation. If you use it for sickness...you won't or may not have enough leave to rest and an employee could bring a case against a company for this.

I get employees asking if they can use leave to avoid hitting a trigger and always have to say no.

Another issue I have seen is company’s bring in the Bradford Factor and basicly scare their staff to death with it. I was a line manager in a place that handed it out with a letter saying a warning WILL be given at this point and you WILL be dismissed at this point. Rather then saying support and intervention will be the main aim of the Factor so we can help you to reduce further absences.
My staff were frightening into coming to work ill, also the trigger point was disgusting

I now work for a huge company that’s always telling us how many millions in profits they’ve made, but always keep us slightly understaffed

This attitude to sickness seems to be part of a management culture the UK that treats employees like naughty children. Penny pinching and false economies at the expense of the employees. It isn't related to productivity in the end. Other countries have a much more relaxed attitude to sickness like Australia and Germany and don't seem to suffer for it.

OP I hope you feel better soon and please don't let the stress of getting ill get you down.

DH runs a small business, and he either pays staff at his discretion, allows them to take leave or make the time up if it's only a day or two. It's so counter effective to encourage people into work with a contagious illness. He brought this in after someone came to work with flu and he ended up with literally 2 staff left standing - it brought the place to its knees and took weeks to catch back up after. It's not taken advantage of either, thankfully.

SandyY2K
Very true but I have seen employees using annual leave when they are off sick and when it happened to me my manager was more then happy to have let me use it. Unfortunelty I was young at the time and did not know how to stand up for myself
Very bad management

Once you're on a stage, it's virtually impossible to get off it if you have to do 12 months without sickness. I'm immunosuppressed so get ill and spent years bouncing between stages. Did 11 months without sickness and had to have emergency spinal surgery - still triggered a final stage sickness hearing!

Seems to be a high number of people here who have perfect jobs. At a previous employer I was expected to be at work no matter how sick. It was a restaurant and we were told to come in whatever. If we really were too sick to work either you stayed unpaid and did what you could or used up your holiday.

My husband once vomited over his bosses desk (not on purpose he couldn’t stop
It) when his boss refused to send him home when he was ill. Karma

I don’t really see how work could “support” me in reducing further absences, if I’m sick I’m sick, there’s nothing they or I can do about it.

I’d prefer to take annual leave over sick pay because we get more than the statutory number of a/l days and it means I’m not taking additional time away from work over the year when I’ve got targets to hit.

It’s all very well saying the Bradford factor should be used as a guideline but common sense is banned where I work, so someone having surgery would be treated the same as someone who takes every Friday afternoon off.

I think that as you have worked there fore a while and are rarely ill, then they should take you at your word and realise that you don't stay off at the drop if a hat. However, there is no denying that some people really do take more sick leave than they need.

Lots of support can be offered by an employer, such as reasonable adjustments for disability or long term health conditions.

If someone is having mental health problems this could be made worse by something that is happening at work so his can be addressed. Sometimes a bit of understanding shown by an employer can make all the different where mental health in concerned.
People are off for all sorts of reason and yes there is times when an employer can offer support to an employee and this could help them have less absences.

But as you say your work are crap at that and are not using the Bradford Factor as it should be used. Are you in a union at all?

Sorry posted to soon, I had a major issue with one employer over the Bradford Factor when I had had surgery. I got unison involved and they soon backed off

Arrrrgggghhhh posted to soon again. Unions hate the Bradford Factor not being used correctly

As a PP said, it's down to a hugely pervasive attitude that employees are untrustworthy, lazy and opportunistic, and they have to be kept in line by bullying and intimidation.
It wasn't that long ago (well, 30 years ) that temping was a really cool option if you had other stuff you were interested in. I remember Monday morning, first thing, trotting into Alfred Marks, taking a number and waiting my turn, and I would be sent off to do two days here, three days there, covering for general office staff or reception staff who were off sick with a tummy bug or flu or whatever.
When DS was little (only 10 years ago) I went looking for something similar - a casual day or two here and there - and there was absolutely nothing of that sort any more.

I can see what you mean about supporting disabilities and mental health but they’re things employers should be doing anyway, they’re not much good for contagious diseases, if I was a less ethical person I’d just go in on Monday and spend it around.

No, we don’t have a union. I’ll just have to hope I’m not sick again for 12 months.

Spread not spend

Windermere - they can but sometimes don't. Even when OH make a recommendation to raise the sickness triggers...

I can't control when I get ill, I take a v strong medication used during chemo to try to help my white blood count but I'm still prone to infections and have to be wary of neutropenic sepsis. But treated the same as a "normal" healthy person

And if you are sick again you will prob make the decision to go in (not having a go at you here at all) because of your employers lack of common sense, pass it around and more staff will go off. Bloody managers never seem to get it though. I think they give you a special pill when you become a manger so you don’t get ill that the rest of us minions don’t know about. This means the managers can then trot out the line
“Well I didn’t get ill” or “I have been here and did not catch it”
When they retire or have to step down for some reason they wipe their memory of this anti illness pill (a bit like Men in Black) and you become a normal human again with a normal immune system