Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'You don't like grammar schools because your DC weren't clever enough to get into one'

93 replies

Tannertenner · 12/05/2018 10:34

How would you react if this was said to you in a 'discussion' about the rights and wrongs of grammar schools?

OP posts:
ourkidmolly · 12/05/2018 10:35

Well it would really depend on who's saying it and the context? That's too little info.

Loonoon · 12/05/2018 10:36

I think my reaction would be embarrassed fury if it were true and amusement if it wasn't.

Idontbelieveinthemoon · 12/05/2018 10:37

I'd laugh in their face. Anyone who needs to argue by throwing insults has lost the argument entirely.

Original poster
Tannertenner · 12/05/2018 10:37

The context is a discussion about grammars following the recent news that the govt is increasing the numbers.

OP posts:
IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 12/05/2018 10:39

I'd laugh. I went to grammar school and my dc are definitely clever enough to go and I still don't think they are a great idea. I'd consider the person speaking to be both ignorant and rude. People can hold opinions on all sorts of subjects that don't affect them personally.

SluttyButty · 12/05/2018 10:40

Tanner that thread has a couple of unpleasant people on it. I've had someone be rude to me on it. I just ignored them.

x2boys · 12/05/2018 10:41

I would point out as always do on these threads that I think they are incredibly unfair as they are not UK wide but I will be ignored as usual Hmm

Original poster
Tannertenner · 12/05/2018 10:42

Sorry this isn't a TAAT. Though I guess it could seem that way. I've not been on that thread (mainly because I get so annoyed about grammars) - this was said to me by someone I know.

OP posts:
borlottibeans · 12/05/2018 10:44

Actually I think that's a valid reason not to like them!

I went to a grammar school and for a long time I was a supporter as, to be fair, I did ok out of it. It was only a few years ago that it occurred to me I'd been assuming any children of mine would get in if we lived in a grammar school area. I thought about how horrified I would be if they didn't and were sent to the less good option and told they weren't clever at the age of 10/11. It was a bit of an epiphany.

MycatsaPirate · 12/05/2018 10:45

Urgh! I'd be a bit pissed off. I know a fair few kids who have gone to grammar from DD's year group and a lot of them needed weeks of private tutoring to get through the test and even now I see Instagram posts from some of these kids whose spelling and grammar are absolutely dreadful.

My DD is incredibly bright (no, it's not bias, she is very bright) but she also has autism and absolutely would not cope with the pressures being in a grammar school would put on her. Therefore made the decision not to put her through the tests or even think about moving her away from the very good middle school she is at.

I am really angry that so much money is being pumped into grammar schools. A group of us parents were at our school the other day painting some of the corridors because the school doesn't have the money in it's budget. Our PTA has funded vital science equipment, a new ITC suite and a new library for the school. In other words, the parents are paying for the equipment for the schools because the budget has been slashed so much.

It's infuriating. All children deserve the same chances, the same education and the same start in life. The children who aren't academic enough to pass the test probably need more help yet it's the brightest kids who have more money thrown their way and more chances to do well.

Not a great system unless we want to just have a completely two tier education system.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 12/05/2018 10:45

the thing is that 11 plus tests just test how good a child is at doing IQ tests.

Anyway we don't have any grammar schools in Wales. So they are just for the English.

SabineUndine · 12/05/2018 10:45

I was in the first comprehensive year in the UK and had the choice of taking the 11plus and going to grammar school or not and going to a comprehensive. I chose not to. Even at 10 kids have principles. You might point this out to the person saying your kids are bright enough.

extrapianolessons · 12/05/2018 10:47

Near enough that exact sentence was said to my MIL about SIL's children, her grandchildren. They aren't clever enough to get it, failing the 11+ miserably and MIL is embarrassed about it. She has taken her feelings out on the schools and those whose children/grandchildren did get in, even going as far as deciding it was a "Tory plot" that her gcs didn't get in and that only "stuck up bitches" sent their children to the local grammar lol!

In her case the remark was absolutely true.

R2G · 12/05/2018 10:47

Think whoever said that to you is in for a shock when their kid gets into the real world.

sausagedogsmakechipolatas · 12/05/2018 10:47

I’d laugh and laugh and laugh. I’d love for there to be a good (not outstanding - just good) local comprehensive that my kids could attend.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 12/05/2018 10:48

and anyway , just because some kid is good at doing IQ tests, why does that make them more deserving of a 'good ' education ? My daughter was starved of oxygen at birth. Does that mean that she doesn't deserve a 'good' education?

Original poster
Tannertenner · 12/05/2018 10:48

My view is that they're not a 'reward' for ability irrespective of class, money etc because in our area the vast majority of the kids who get places have been heavily tutored and/ or go to private prep schools. Also that no child should be told they're a failure at 10. And finally that they create a 2 tier system. At the grammar kids get amazing facilities, can do 3 foreign languages, Latin, lots of extra curricular, after school clubs, debate teams, public speaking etc whereas the non grammar schools in the same area are basically doing crowd control for 5 years and stopping kids stabbing each other. No range of subjects. Very few able teachers. Lots of unqualified staff covering lessons. And so on...

But apparently my opinion is invalid because my children didn't go to a grammar.

OP posts:
Baroquehavoc · 12/05/2018 10:50

I didn't think that there were many grammar school areas?

There are no grammar school here, and I don't hear many people wanting them intoduced.

Teachervoice · 12/05/2018 10:55

the non grammar schools in the same area are basically doing crowd control for 5 years and stopping kids stabbing each other. No range of subjects. Very few able teachers. Lots of unqualified staff covering lessons.

This is the sort of unhealthy opinion of local comprehensives that keeps grammar schools thriving.

MsAwesomeDragon · 12/05/2018 10:55

Well it's not true for me. Both my dds are clever enough to get into a grammar school but dd1 currently goes to a local comp and dd2 will go to a comp when she is old enough.

I don't think grammar schools are a good thing at all. I am a teacher and see how much kids change throughout secondary. I've seen many kids who would have failed the 11+ at 11, do superbly well at secondary, move up sets (not possible if you are in a different school to the set above!) And they can get amazing GCSE results even if they weren't ready at 11 to show that potential in an IQ test. And you do get it the other way around with kids who were doing brilliantly at 11 who then struggle later and don't do so well, they deserve the chance to move down sets and do work at a more appropriate level for them at that stage in their education.

AnnDerry · 12/05/2018 10:56

It has been said to me.

DH and I have an ideological objection to any form of selective compulsory education, so we didn't enter our DC for the exam for the 1 remaining grammar school in our area (not actually in our county but close enough to be viable) and sent them both to our rural bog standard community comp which on paper is a poor school. The outright nasty comments changed when DD1 did very well at GCSE - at that point I was told I was putting my political beliefs above her opportunities by not sending her to the Grammar for 6th form. She stayed at the comp.

She's now at Cambridge.

But... in the end it doesn't matter whether my DC are bright or not. A decent school education is a human right. It shouldn't depend on intellectual ability. And in any case, often what is tested at 11 is cultural capital, not aptitude. The grammar system reinforces inequality.

TheTurnOfTheScrew · 12/05/2018 10:56

ooh, I've had this one at work. Lots of people choose to live in Borough A (fully selective) "for the grammar schools", which they they spend all of KS2 fretting and tutoring to get in to.

we deliberately chose to live in nearby Borough B (no grammars at all) because we don't agree with the selective system. People are always surprised when they find out how well my kids are doing academically, as they assume that anyone parent who could get their kid into a grammar would want to.

In our borough, pretty much everyone sends their DC to their respective catchment comprehensive, and as a consequence they're all pretty decent all-ability schools.

MrsWinklepicker · 12/05/2018 10:58

I bloody hate them, I live in a grammar school area and have bright children who will probably benefit from them (I don't want their education to suffer because of my principals) but I hate the system and would love for it to be abolished.

BertrandRussell · 12/05/2018 10:59

I would say “oh don’t talk bollocks”

But I an very weary of the bollocks people talk about grammar schools.

Original poster
Tannertenner · 12/05/2018 11:01

Teachervoice, the schools I refer to are so bad because of the grammar system. In a non grammar area they would not be so deprived of funding. The disparity between the haves (grammars) and the havenots (same area, non grammar - comprehensive but effectively lower than a comp) is huge. I can't see how that in any way supports grammars.

OP posts: