To think pensioners paying NI is a step towards equality

[jnfrrss]

Apparently it would raise 2 billion a year and help cover social care.

Mail comments are furious people, but isn't it a step towards a more equal society and taxing everyone more similar regardless of age?

Ni just seems like such an outdated system and in an ideal world it would all be rolled into one tax with income.

Nobody's suggested paying NI on pensions.

I also take the view that we're going to end up doing some unpalatable things that a lot of people won't like, sooner or later, because we'll have to. The working age population are poorer than pensioners, as a group, and are only going to be able to bear so much taxation. That's what it'll come down to. None of this is to say there aren't arguments to be made about fairness etc. Some of them may even be right. They just won't matter as much as the bottom line.

I think young people are finally becoming more politically engaged, which can only be a good thing.

i find it interesting that people are equating maybe 3 sets of maternity leave paid at £150 a week for nine months with a pension of however much paid potentially for decades.
I had 12 weeks off unpaid when I had my first.

Anyone with half a brain could see through this divisive intergenerational nonsense though. Young people are all too credulous. They seem to swallow any sort of propaganda unquestioningly.

Rebecca The average woman my age will have a state pension for 15 years before dying of a maximum of £125 a week. Many will get less than that.
Lets deal with averages, not outliers.

Minge That statistic about pensioners being better off is based on the cost of property. And yes pensioners in London and the south who own their own home will be well off on paper because property prices have risen so much. Very different from monthly income though.

Nobody's equating them.Simply illustrating that different generations benefit in different ways. Is free childcare not worth quite a lot of money?

Nope crunchy it's income based, not wealth. Obviously yes wealth would skew the picture even more.

i don't know, i never had any? Did you mean the 16 hours a week for the children which is neither use nor ornament for many families?

The WE PAID 15% INTEREST RATES (on a tiny mortgage comparatively) is a bit deceptive too.

My first mortgage was 30k, the same house would cost 10-15 times that amount now. People slightly younger than I am and downwards are stuffed financially, and not just because of iphones and starbucks.

What evidence is there that pensioners have more income than those working? The only evidence I can find is a survey carried out by Prudential of £1000 of their customers. Hardly a representative sample.

Everyone can earn £8 kish before they start paying NI. For a working pensioner this is in addition to their state pension entitlement. Given the low levels of pensioners working beyond age 65 and the projection that this change would raise over £2bn it looks likely that it will hit well paid working retirees rather than lollypop people who earn nothing like £8k.

My DM is less than 25 years older than me. She got her state pension at 60 and stopped paying NI then. She also continued working till she was 63, NI free. She was a SAHM for 12 years and was able to claim on my DF's NI record when she came to retire, despite having been divorced for 25 years. The full NI record used to be 30 years with HRP till DC were 16. It is now 35 years with HRP till DC are 12.

Retirement age when I can collect my pension and stop paying NI will be 67 (more than £50k difference in basic pension terms or 25 years worth of average wage NI contributions).

2 million pensioners are living in poverty. Most are women. It was v difficult for a single woman to get a mortgage when they were younger. Divorced women had no entitlement to a share in their ex-husband's pensions and only a short time to build up a pension of their own because most were SAHMs. V little paid child-care available and no incentives from the Govt for mothers to work.

My occupational pension just about covers my council tax. I've just had a dentist bill for £300. If it weren't for an inheritance from my parents, which I'm drawing on to supplement my pension, I would be living on benefits.

Most pensioners who are still working do so because they can't afford to retire.

It's not inter-generational equality that needs addressing, but inequality of wealth within the generations.

In my first job from school, boys the same age as me were given jobs that were much better paid than the jobs girls were given. The pay gap between women and men was much wider then.

But I actually want everyone to get the best deal they can.
And I don't think an average of 15 years for a woman, and 12 years for a man to get a state pension, is unreasonable.

Many young people are far from stuffed financially, a lot of them are being given or loaned house deposits to enable mortgage repayments lower than the rent for a similar property.

16 hours free childcare is nearly half a working week, it may not be ornamental but it seems to come in pretty useful and is 16 hours more than I got.

I do have sympathy for young people. I'm angry about student loans and fees and people getting gulled into getting into £££ of debt to get a degree for a job that would have required "A" levels in my day. I sympathise with house prices being so ludicrous.

But this is the fault of successive governments which encourage inter generational conflict. None of us have any control over the time of our birth. It's illogical to blame us. Yes, correct the imbalance of wealth but go after the super wealthy and huge corporations, they're the ones really ripping you off if you're young.

I also take the view that we're going to end up doing some unpalatable things that a lot of people won't like, sooner or later, because we'll have to

Completely agree with this. I get the 30 free hours of childcare but it’s not free it’s subsidised & it’s not all year round. I still appreciate it but the government actually benefits by keeping me in work as the tax I pay is more than then the childcare cost.

Cuntinuous I think you may be under the impression that I am ONLY replying to you! Or that I am bound by whatever it is you wish to include, stuff you see as superfluous!

I hate to break it to you, but I am not! And I shall respond as I see fit, even if you continue to dislike it. I shall do as you are doing, follow my own agenda within the wider discussion.

Pshaw!!

I agree we will have to face some unpalatable choices soon as we cannot keep taking money out and deferring the bill for future generations to pay. Personally my choice would be a tax on unearned income from property appreciation which would raise money and possibly help level out the imbalance in prices between areas.
At present a pensioner in the North may sell the house they bought many years ago for £50k for 300k where in the SE, the same type of house bought for a similar amount years ago, may reach £1million. I would put a tax on the profit so those with less from property when they downsize pay less than those with more to stash away

Forgot to say I would also be in favour of NI on income earned after retirement age

I am not far off retirement and, while I don't have money to throw away, I don't expect the younger generations to fund more than they can expect for themselves. It does seem unfair that people 10 years ahead of me have had so much given to them

I see the theory behind it. Those worried that people getting paid pittance will get less I don't think it would affect them. I don't know how much the state pension is but expect it's probably less or similar to the current no free pay therefore they won't pay anything.

Those that have state and Occupational or private pension get the ni free pay per 'employer' therefore under the current rules they could still earn just over £1400 before paying NI. This will mainly affect people who have high private or occupational pensions.

I can see why folks think it's unfair but as a country we are living longer (great) but we didn't expect so many of us drawing on the system for as long as we do. Some people are drawing a pension for as long as they were working (or close to) so where does this money come from? When the system was first set up most people probably only claimed a pensions for 10 years but now it's well over that.

Bit off topic, but I think a stamp duty break for downsizers would help a bit. My dad lives in a 3/4 bed, but going down to a 2 bed for example isn't worth it once stamp duty and moving fees are accounted for.

It does seem unfair that some people 10 years ahead of me have had so much given to them that is different from the stuff the generation behind me get

I could agree with that! But how would you tax unearned income on increased house prices?

When would you do it?
Would it be as well as or instead of Capital Gains Tax?

(mutters about another tax that people don't seem to know about)!!

Once again, there's no suggestion that pensions attract NI. The proposal is that working pensioners pay NI on their wages, thus hitting the very poorest of them.

We are never going to have something like a tax on unearned property appreciation. We are never going to have any measures that would adversely affect those with the power and the money.

It’s a tax on the poorest. Very few are still working in retirement because they want to.