To think this is f*cking terrifying?

[RomeoBunny]

news.sky.com/story/grandparents-right-to-see-grandchildren-could-be-protected-by-law-11363044

Genetic connection should not equal an automatic right to see a child. Grandparents are NOT the parents. How many times does this need to be stated? They are not 'entitled' to anything. In many cases they are toxic and it is beyond the simple reason of their children's divorce for not seeing their grandchildren.

Your time with them is what your children wish you to have with THEIR children.

This is batshit.

My comment stands. And he adults do have rights, just the child’s rights take priority.

Please spread this and contact your MPs. The man is a joke and is pushing dangerous legislation he clearly understands naff all about. "Snowballed from a tiff" that alone makes my blood run cold. Do we as parents/next of kin have any rights to choice and parent how we believe is best at all anymore?! It's becoming frightening.

How on earth do you argue benefit for the0 child!?

People would look at my pils and see all nice solid middle class wealthy family...
Small scratch reveals nasty environment where children make to feel less important than a carpet a narracisitic Mil and enbabling fil who has extreme views on life and success which I feel since he can't talk about anything else would be hugely detrimental for my dc to be exposed too on regular basis m

Mil is also manically depressing person who crushed her son and has horrid views

It’s awful and I agree. I know many people with incredibly toxic parents, this is irresponsible at best.

Can mumsnet do something here?! After all dreadful in law stories on here?
Can we form a group?

@ elendon yes.

My Mil had dd and few times very month android crossed every boundary known to man. (MUTUAL benefit not child care)
When she decided dd needed Potty training
Didn't ask me or dh.. Poor dd as soon as she got home she would scream nappy on nappy on..

I tried to talk to Mil she wasn't interested. She said as though I was lying... That's strange because she is so happy in her nappy here. ' dh asked her to keep nappy on.. As soon as she dd got there older reported Mil whipped nappy off..
So we had to stop the regular visits.. But if its law.. All that ends up they can do what they like and we have seen appalling examples of what they can do.

graphista exactly how do you explain toxic emotional abuse people.

What if the judge was type of mumsetter on here who can't grasp what toxic relationships do?

The problem is that children often can not see emotional abuse, their very innocence and general open hearts leaves them vulnerable to exploitation but trying to prove that in a court of law will be challenging, accumulating evidence harder still. It could spur relations irrevocably.
Most parents want the best for their child, and therefore a gp relationship would be desirable if healthy for the child.
I would be most worried about separations due to domestic violence where the gp are used by the perpetrator to still exert countrol through his/her parents. That possibility is deeply disturbing.

Grandparents that wish to for part of their gc lives need to consider the children in question and not just their own wants and needs.

That's exactly my point! That's why I said this is a terrible idea. Did you misread my posts? Was I unclear in some way?

Some gp will present well but may well still go on to be abusive, neglectful, hurtful to their gp children. It should always be a matter for the parents to decide the best interest of the child.

Fuck no. I'd move across the world with my kids before I let any of their grandparents have any kind of say or 'rights' over my kids! 😡

They can see and spend time with them but at the end of the day me and DH make the rules and they are to be abided by at all times!

Control

My poor grammar graphista.

It was supposed to be g. Exactly! Ie I agree.. How does one trust the judge the law etc can possibly grasp the nuances of the toxic relationship.
I guess parents would have to bring in therapists and counsellors?

We should all write to Esther ranzten as well about the truth behind some of the gp stories.

Absolutely parents want best for dc unless extreme cases.

In our case I would adore for pils to be kind normal balanced respectful people. They are not.

It's not control - it's protecting my children. Which is what any decent parent should do!

As with most laws I suppose it depends how it is used and upheld.
I don't have a problem with it in principle. Some grandparents no doubt are toxic, but so are some mothers and fathers.
The problem is it will be open to abuse, and not used how intended.

In many cases they are toxic

Many? A few. In real life, I know only one or two people who don't have contact with their parents, and those are people who haven't had one parent in their life since childhood.

I think the legislation is pointless though - those of us who have good relationships with our parents will allow them to see the kids anyway.

This is utterly terrifying!

Coffeeonthesofa My son and his partner lived with us before and after she was born before they managed to get their own place to live, they have now split up but I am lucky that they both are happy for her to spend a day with me each week. If that were to change obviously I would be heartbroken but I don’t think that grandparents should have rights to see their grandchildren, rather that a judge should decide if it is in the child’s best interest to maintain that contact. Spending time with grandchildren is a privilege not a right.

and that is why you're not the sort of grandparent who would be cut off by the parents, or who would take it to court. You sound absolutely lovely, I wish you were my MIL!

@SunwhereareyouShowyourself I don't know. Can we do anything like that? At least without some of the toxic ones from Gransnet trying to sabotage anything?

Lweji-It's always worth pointing out that it's not about the rights of the adults, but of the children.

This^

GorgonLondon ❤️ I would love to have more grandchildren but I’m really not very special at all. I was lucky that my own parents were fabulous grandparents, supportive and happy to help out but not critical. Many of my kids friends treated them like surrogate grandparents.
I aspire to be like them.
I also have two friends who are fabulous kinship carers for their grandchildren because their parents were judged unfit to raise the children. My DSis and BIL were lucky enough to be able to adopt my lovely nephew because he was taken away from his birth parents and his birth grandparents (quite rightly in their case) failed in their bid to get custody of him. So there is good and bad in parents just as there is in grandparents. Which is why each case needs to be considered individually and the child’s needs must be paramount.
I do worry about grandparents whose whole life is focussed on access to their grandchildren. (Obviously not grandparents who have real concerns about the welfare of the children).

I would like v much to see my MiL try to get access to our DC. We have emails, texts, letters full of manipulative threats from her. DH's siblings would all testify in support of us that she was/is abusive. We have police records too. We went NC in 2013 (before DCs) and she's occasionally tried to rear her head since then, luckily we have moved three times since then so she has no way of knowing where we live now.

The idea of her being alone with my DC brings me out in a cold sweat.