To think this is f*cking terrifying?

[RomeoBunny]

news.sky.com/story/grandparents-right-to-see-grandchildren-could-be-protected-by-law-11363044

Genetic connection should not equal an automatic right to see a child. Grandparents are NOT the parents. How many times does this need to be stated? They are not 'entitled' to anything. In many cases they are toxic and it is beyond the simple reason of their children's divorce for not seeing their grandchildren.

Your time with them is what your children wish you to have with THEIR children.

This is batshit.

Hygge That's awful.

As for this Nigel bloke, he seems like a typical toe-the-line Tory from what I can see.

I wondered if the MPs pushing this have spoken to the parents involved in their specific cases.

I'm sorry, I don't believe grandparents who say they have been innocent and blocked access.

Perhaps if they had brought their own children up properly to be reasonable parents who were able to keep things civil when separating with their partners, then they could still have access with their grandchildren without having to go through all of this.

It is concerning particularly for those who have no relationship with their parents due to toxic behaviour.

Just how many narcissists are clinically diagnosed?
They'd charm and bamboozle whoever had to assess them.

I am a grandma who ( for various reasons which are too long to go into here) has a very close relationship with my very young granddaughter. My son and his partner lived with us before and after she was born before they managed to get their own place to live, they have now split up but I am lucky that they both are happy for her to spend a day with me each week.
If that were to change obviously I would be heartbroken but I don’t think that grandparents should have rights to see their grandchildren, rather that a judge should decide if it is in the child’s best interest to maintain that contact.
Spending time with grandchildren is a privilege not a right.

Oh @Hygge that is terrible

I'm currently NC with my mum
Ah, I was erring on thinking that maybe, in some situations, contact with GPs could be good for the child and that in so many cases they are more reliable, sensible, and stable than some parents. But, but, then this. Yeah, you’re so right. I am 30 years NC with my emotionally and physically abusive mother. Just after the birth of my first child she, unasked, read a letter I sent my DB about my new baby. She chose then to send me a letter suggesting she would offer me an ‘olive branch’ (like I was the one in the wrong, as a child, being abused). To think that her narcissistic tendencies could have led her to legally challenge me completely ignoring her letter to me, and gaining access to my children is terrifying indeed.

Hmmm.

Let's not forget that some parents shouldn't have an automatic right to see their own children either.

It's not easy and I do think in general it is in the children's interest to be in contact with relatives, not just their own parents.

Of course there will be cases where contact with grandparents is harmful, but there will be many where it isn't.

They have got this the wrong way round - children should, if they so wish, have a right to see grandparents. Know a number of divorced parents whose use their children as a weapon against their ex and that includes their parents. The rights belong to the children.

With you OP

Awful idea

And where you draw the line? Hope it gets shot down.

If I were prevented from seeing my dgc I would be hurt beyond measure. I would want a careful explanation from the child’s parents and “Because I don’t want to let you!” comes from the playground not from reasonable loving adults. However I wouldn’t ask a court to intervene, it would mean a deep problem within the family if it happened ,and involving outside agencies would make it worse not better.

It has huge implications.
I have an adopted child but if he was placed with us now we would have him under a special guardianship order. (he is related to us)
This would mean his GPs would still be his legal GPs.
His birth family would be making our lives a misery every time they got a bit bored and decided they wanted to see him.

I can understand why this has come about. As a kinship carer I have seen lots of awful, heartbreaking stories involving GPs. Just as not all GPs are good people, neither are all parents. I know of GPs who have had sole care of the DGCs for several years. Parent turns up and decides they need the kids back, deny GPs any contact at all.
Thats not right is it?

If DH and I were to divorce, I would do everything I could to ensure my mil has the same level of regular contact with our children that she does now, even if that was during 'my' time not 'his'- my children adore her and are very close to her, and would suffer if they didn't see her.
But there are many, many cases where the GPs relationship is extremely unhealthy, and contact is not a right, it is a privilege that needs to be earned. Some GPs are openly downright abusive to their children, and it is awful for grandchildren in this position to hear their GPs abusing their parents.

This is just badly reported. There are no 'rights' for adults at all in children law, it is all completely child focussed already. A welfare checklist for the child has to be applied in every case and this won't change. How well this actually works is up for debate as to the effectiveness of our courts, and Cafcass, with everything under-resourced. They will still have to bring applications if they are blocked as they currently do. No need for panic.

The thought of my Mum being able to see my DC makes my blood run cold. Been NC for 12 years. Emotionally and physically abusive.

Same goes for ExMIL seeing my toddler - ExH is a drug using alcoholic and she is his biggest enabler. Neither currently see DToddler.

Terrifying

I am nc with my sister. Have been for 3 years now and my children are 3 and 5. DH agrees.

This really scares me. Why as a parent can’t I decide that a certain person will not be good for them?

I’m allowed to choose their school, home, diet, Dentist, supermarket. I can within reason influence their friends in terms of invites etc. But I may not have the parental capacity to keep an absolutely rotten violent person out of their lives?

This should never have gone this far.

This is horrifying. My husband has been NC with his emotionally abusive family for years; I have never met them and they don't (I think) know he's married me. The idea that they should have a legal right to see our future children is absurd, and it looks from that article that rather than them have to prove they had some connection (which they wouldn't have), we would need to somehow prove that their presence would be damaging to the children's welfare. Emotional abuse wasn't recognised when my husband was a child so there is obviously no evidence (beyond notes from his ongoing psychiatry appointments, I suppose).

Of course, older people are more likely to vote, so issues perceived to be important to them are, as always, a priority.

We can all do anecdotal stories with this though.

What about the young man/woman, tragically widowed, gets a new partner who is jealous and demands he/she goes NC with the GPs - who have done no wrong, supported the surviving partner but wants to take on the role of parent?

I've seen that happen twice and it absolutely crucified the whole 'blood' family. Once was with a serviceman who died on duty, the new bloke simply couldn't deal with 'hero dad' so dad was airbrushed out. And again with a friend who died so young, the new partner couldn't have children of her own and she absolutely wanted everyone to believe they were hers.

Do you think it wrong the GPs (extended family) have no access to children?

What would it mean for those who keep low contact with their parents for their own good reasons and visitations are short and few between. Could a gp legally request more time with the grandchildren?
I'm just thinking of the repercussions of this (if it happens) for those of us in Stately homes thread :S

Fortunately for me, my (diagnosed) narcissistic old bat of a mother was told to fuck off by her grandchildren years ago.

It has happened in Ireland already. The parents couldn't prove that the Grandparents were the emotionally abusive, narcissistic, painkiller addicted, sociopaths that they are and the kids have court ordered access. It's. Fucking. Horrendous.

Thank you.

I've just emailed my MP to ask her not to support anything like this and to look at estrangement charities such as Stand Alone to understand the impact this might have on families like ours.

For clarity. I am a gran and I see my DGC regularly. If my DC or DCinlaw cut me off from seeing my DGC I would not go through the courts. The children are not mine and when my children were small I would not have appreciated someone taking me to court to demand access to them.

I do think it's sad when good, kind, loving grandparents are cut off for no real reason, I don't think the courts are the way to solve this. Yes, I would be heartbroken to lose contact but the stress, bad feeling and resentment that would ensue is just not worth it for the child's sake.

Genuinely close to tears about this. DH’s parents are abusive, awful people, but they ‘put on a good show’ of normality. We haven’t seen them for 5 years, in which time we’ve had DS. They’ve found out about DS and are desperate to see him.

I feel physically sick about the thought of them anywhere near my child.