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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think cosmetic surgery and enhancements are anti feminist?

43 replies

BrightonCalling · 06/05/2018 10:55

I'm reading the beauty myth. So far, as I understand it Naomi Wolf is saying that plastic surgery, botox, "tweaks" are carried out by women in a bid to hold on to their power, which sadly in our culture, is synonymous with beauty and youth.

Until now I actuallu thought the above were about freedom of choice ajd I took a live and let live approach to the issue. But reading this book (Im only on the first chapter), I find myself agreeing with her.

It cant be about just wanting to look your best when so few men do it. So is cosmetic enhancement a negative thing, and if you think so, where do we draw the line - how is cosmetic enhancement different from say makeup?

OP posts:

NewYearNewMe18 · 06/05/2018 11:02

It cant be about just wanting to look your best when so few men do it.

Men tend to make the time to continue to play sport and go to the gym, and they don't age in the same way women do because they don't have child bearing to contend with. Lots of men have little nips and tucks, especially round the eyes, and 'apron-ectomies' . Their cosmetic surgery isn't full on in your face breast implants or trout pouts.

If men didn't take care of themselves you wouldn't have a booming industry in male grooming and facial products.

These 'feminist' books are driven to make you insecure and sheep like. Lowest common denominator of awfulness. No one feels great with lank grey hair (cant dye it or style it) or hairy pits and fuzzy legs (cant shave), look like death warmed up (cant wear make up) etc etc.

AfterSchoolWorry · 06/05/2018 11:07

I disagree. It's always irked me that Naomi Wolff comes out with this coming from the privileged position of being a beautiful looking woman.

echt · 06/05/2018 11:17

You haven't said how what NW said ( if she said it) was actually saying cosmetic interventions are anti-feminist.

pigsDOfly · 06/05/2018 11:24

So women have plastic surgery to hold onto their power, do they? How does Naomi Wolf know this? Love a simplistic, sweeping statement.

I've never had plastic surgery. Wouldn't have Botox, and fillers just make a lot of women look lantern jawed. But if it makes someone feel better about themselves then I say, go for it.

I wash and style my hair, wear make up, keep myself slim and wear clean clothes. I don't do these things because I'm desperately trying to hold on to what little sexual 'power' I have left at nearly 70. I do it because it makes me feel better about myself, than I would if I walked around looking like a scarecrow. But that's for me not as a vain effort to impress anyone else.

Yes, I'm sure there are women who have cosmetic surgery to make them, in their view, more attractive to men (keeping their power) but I suspect an awful lot do it because they want to feel good about themselves, for themselves.

Looking at photos of Naomi Wolf it's pretty clear that she puts quite an effort into her appearance. So does she do this in order to 'hold on to her power' too? Or is she someone who thinks she can judge what others do whilst doing similar and then tell them they shouldn't be doing it.

I think she's full of bullshit.

SerenDippitty · 06/05/2018 11:27

Men tend to make the time to continue to play sport and go to the gym, and they don't age in the same way women do because they don't have child bearing to contend with.

That’s a stupid generalisation. Not all women have children.

WhiteCoyote · 06/05/2018 11:28

Op I’ve followed your last couple of threads with interest, you’re going through a stage of realising how unfair a lot of the system is, including the male female gap which I’ve been thinking a lot on recently as well. It’s been really interesting reading everyone’s (especially women’s) thoughts on what is and isn’t femininism, but I don’t think small cosmetic tweaks are anti feminist in the slightest - no more than wearing make up or waxing body hair or getting dressed up. I have a small particular pocket of fat on my body that no amount of diet or exercise will get rid of, I had it at size 8 and I still have it now at size 12. I’ve seen it on embarrassing bodies and on the Internet - only cosmetic surgery would get rid of it. I would do it in a heartbeat if I had the money. Not for anyone else and definitely not to make myself more sexually appealing to men. I have no insecurities there at all. But I still hate it and would get rid of it. It’s not a feminist issue at all.

echt · 06/05/2018 11:32

Soooo, OP, you're drawing conclusions based on the first chapter of book published in 1990?

Inolvidable · 06/05/2018 11:32

It cant be about just wanting to look your best when so few men do it.

Something like a million men in the UK use anabolic steroids for cosmetic reasons. Trying looking at the world outside your feminist lens once in a while.

SerenDippitty · 06/05/2018 11:34

There’s a difference between having something fixed that you’ve always been dissatisfied with, and having stuff done to make yourself look younger. The latter does buy into the notion that women no longer have any value once they start visibly ageing.

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 06/05/2018 11:39

I think the entire emphasis on women being valued for their looks above all else is anti feminist and yes cosmetic surgery is a subset of that.

But I got some very good answers a while back my arse handed to me on a plate from women who enjoy enhancing themselves in this way and while it may well be an anti feminist choice, it is one that many want to make for their own personal satisfaction. So fair play to them. I make anti feminist choices everyday for an easy life too.

pigsDOfly · 06/05/2018 11:41

So does that mean that SerenDippitty I should stop using moisturiser and just go all wrinkly to prove I haven't bought into the notion that I no long have any value?

Perhaps it just means I don't want wrinkly skin.

CaptainCabinets · 06/05/2018 11:44

You know what is ‘anti-feminist’?

Assuming that women make the decision to have cosmetic procedures for any reason other than that is what they want to do. Sad and kind of ironic that a ‘feminist’ book is condoning judging women who choose to alter their physical appearance.

Smeddum · 06/05/2018 11:51

I feel quite sad when women’s decisions are labelled anti feminist. It feels a bit like “well if you’re not with us you’re against us” which is shit.

I’m not one for plastic surgery, it’s not something I would choose to do. But I’m not going to slate women who do choose it, or to wear makeup, to dress how they please.

Isn’t feminism about making sure women do have the right to make our own decisions and have choices that weren’t available to women in the past? It’s what I see it as, along with the need to eradicate inequality between men and women, and to make sure women are treated as equal in all aspects of society as a matter of course.

So how does criticising women for making choices become feminism?

Ollivander84 · 06/05/2018 11:52

I had Botox because my 11 lines were annoying me. Makeup was sitting in them, I didn't want them so I had Botox
I had my eyebrows tattooed because I've got very pale body hair and was sick of doing my eyebrows every day
Didn't have either done for anything else, I had them done for me

pandarific · 06/05/2018 11:54

I can’t get worked up about it. YANBU that the system is rigged and utterly unreasonable.

However, on an individual basis, I don’t blame women for gaming the unequal system in order to benefit by having cosmetic work done.

Have had fillers myself (genetic hollowing under eyes since about 28 yo which makes me look knackered), will get them again (my early 30s seem to have erased my top lip - would like it back pls.)

SerenDippitty · 06/05/2018 11:57

*So does that mean that SerenDippitty I should stop using moisturiser and just go all wrinkly to prove I haven't bought into the notion that I no long have any value?

Perhaps it just means I don't want wrinkly skin.*

I meant having surgery.

I don’t want to look any older than I have to, and to that end I use moisturiser and colour my hair. Both of those are considerably less risky and invasive than a face lift. And I don’t kid myself that I’m actually not ageing by doing them.

Highhorse1981 · 06/05/2018 11:57

But does do one explain away the 40% increase in male cosmetic surgery since 2010?

This isn’t something exclusive to women. It’s a burgeoning male industry

SerenDippitty · 06/05/2018 12:09

Does anyone, honestly, really, want things to get to the point where those who haven’t enhanced themselves surgically are the ones that stand out? I know I don’t.

IronMansIronButt · 06/05/2018 12:10

No, its not anti feminist, ffs.

pigsDOfly · 06/05/2018 12:11

Yes, I know you meant having surgery. But anything we do to enhance our appearance can be looked at as trying to hold onto our 'power'.

An awful lot of all cosmetic surgery isn't done in an attempt to look younger but to fix some actual or perceived 'defect'.

If that makes someone feel better and happier with themselves then why not.

And so what if a woman wants to look younger than she is? It doesn't mean she feels she's lost her 'value' because she's ageing just because she has surgery to make herself feel good.

I really can't see how it's anti feminist.

Storm4star · 06/05/2018 12:16

I was always quite anti face lifts and the like. But i have always had one eye thats noticably lower than the other. Now i’m aging it is getting more pronounced. So i am seriously considering having a brow lift on that side so my eyes are even. To me its not about looking younger etc, its about correcting a very obvious problem. I still dont want botox or a facelift. I just want to look “normal”. Reasons for surgery are so personal that i just dont think you can lump them all together under one heading.

Geoffmd7 · 18/12/2018 13:23

Literally rolling around laughing at the person that said 1 million men use steroids in the UK...

AGHHHH · 18/12/2018 13:32

It's not anti feminist at all.

AGHHHH · 18/12/2018 13:33

Ugh this is a zombie!!! It wasn't funny enough to resurrect it!

Geoffmd7 · 18/12/2018 13:42

Plastic Surgery is the most anti-feminist thing on the planet, seriously though how could one possibly justify altering their appearance if they have even one shred of feminism in them?

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