to want to do a PhD?

[fcekinghell]

I'm currently studying a Masters paid for by my employer. It involves a research dissertation and I hope to submit this summer. I'm really enjoying the research and the topic. I've always liked to learn and build up my qualifications and the topic is something I've had a long term interest in and work experience in. My tutor is confident I'll obtain a distinction and is encouraging me to consider going on to do a PhD.

I'm in two minds about whether to do one though, and I'm weighing up the pros and cons. I wanted to know what others would do in my circumstances?

Pros:
Getting further qualifications
Getting to call myself 'doctor'
Potentially moving into an academic job (there is little scope for progression with my current employer, most people just move side ways)
Continuing to study something that really interests me
Potentially getting a higher salary if entering an academic role
I'm about to finish paying off my car so the monthly payments could maybe go towards study instead and no worse off
DH is supportive

Cons:
I work full time, earning £35,000 a year. DH earns about the same. I cannot afford to give up this salary to do a full time PhD as we have mortgage and bills to pay
I have no savings nor would I be eligible for any loans/grants - the new £25k loan is not applicable in Scotland it seems
I could do the OU and pay instalments but it's still over 2 thou a year, going up each year
It would be 6 years of study and take up most of my free time
We want to start putting some money away for our DD's future and I also want a new kitchen!
I'm disabled which could make travelling for interview etc difficult
My DM says spend the money on my house, holidays, and DD's future and further study is not needed.
Would I even get into academia and would it be better paid/benefits etc than the public sector which I'm currently in?

So my questions is basically WWYD?

I forgot to add, its extremely unlikely my employer would pay for me to do a PhD, especially as it took them 6 years to finally agree to the masters study, and there's been some budget cuts in the last year, leading to me being demoted, hence why I'm considering other career options or routes.

I’d do it if I could. I’m in a similar position, obtaining distinctions in a masters and I’d love to do a PhD later.

It would be 6 years of study and take up most of my free time

^As long as you finish it in 6 years. I know one person who took 5 years and they were a full time student. I also another who started but never finished.

Tell your DM to fuck off. She wants you to piss your money away on a kitchen and holidays rather than invest in yourself? Idiot,

To work in academia you'd have to go where the jobs are, wouldn't you? And besides, aren't half of academia totally fed up with their jobs?

15 people started their doctorate with me, 2 finished.

It’s hard work but DO IT!

Thanks everyone.

I'm also very nervous about how to apply and actually DO a PhD if that makes any sense? I've done a lot of reading into it but I worry about doing a piss poor application / research proposal, getting a crap supervisor, and also worry that I'm underestimating the amount of work involved.

Working full time (leaving house at half 7, coming back at half 6, then having/making tea etc) leaves little time to study...and I don't want to neglect my DD either.

I did one. Full time and fully funded. I wouldn't recommend it.

It's an enormous undertaking, requiring all the energy and stamina you have and then some (it's not in anyway comparable to a masters for example).

It will almost certainly take longer than you think. I was almost 5 years full time. The last six months almost sunk me.

It not just you, it affects your nearest and dearest too. I didn't have DC at the time, thankfully, but DH got it in the neck and the relationship suffered big time.

In my discipline, academic jobs were like gold dust. By the end, I couldn't contemplate an academic job anyway, so it didn't matter, but to get anywhere you'd have to be willing to move anywhere in the world, take at least 2 low paid/short term post docs and publish like a demon to even get started. And the salary isn't that high, even when you get there.

So I finished and got out. Best thing I ever did. Found my way into a pretty interesting career in the private sector, earning far more than I would have in academia. On the upside the PhD makes my CV stand out a bit. Occasionally it's nice to use the title, but I virtually never do.

Not to rain on your parade, but just giving you my experience. I'd only advocate it for someone who was exceptional at their subject, going into an emerging or in demand field, funded all the way, no ties or commitments, willing to move anywhere in the world, prepared to be laser focused on career from the start (publishing like mad, constantly on the conference merry go round), willing to be relatively poor for a good few years after graduating. I'm sure there are some people who fit that criteria out there.

For the same reasons give by @LaurieMarlow, I have decided against doing one (I have just completed my Masters). My husband is an academic and I see what he is doing and think no thanks. I am currently working in a professional services role in a uni and really enjoying it, whilst waiting for a role to come up at a research institute that is in my field (education). That way, I can do the research whilst earning a good salary and without the 3 years of PhD which I don't really need to get into the role I want.

Thanks for sharing your experience, that's the kind of thing that's worrying me - would I really benefit from it? Would my family suffer? But would I get to 6 years time and still be stuck in a job that's going nowhere (but is at least secure)?

I also have one. Again full time and fully funded and I finished in 3.5 years.
There is absolutely no way I could have done it with a job and a family. It was a full time plus some job in itself.

When I finished I did a postdoc - and that showed me that while I loved my subject passionately I couldn’t stay in academia. The pay is crap, the money is all ‘soft’ so it’s very rare to get a permanent job and you’re constantly reapplying for grants and fellowships etc.
You also have to move to where the jobs are - I loved multiple times during my academic career.

In the end I got a career in industry. It’s a bit soul destroying sometimes but the money is good and it’s a permanent job.

I can only second lauries final paragraph. I’d only recommend a PhD if it’s funded, you have a clear career trajectory and you’re willing to move anywhere.

Explore where your masters will take you first. If that’s an employer who will find you through a longer term PhD then great.

I was full time and fully funded and still took 5 years start to finish. Part time, 8-9 years isn’t unusual (and that’s working part time, studying part time). 2 years on I’m still struggling to get any work other than short fixed term contracts - jobs are like gold dust and I live in a city with 3 universities. You can’t work full time and do a PhD - when would you attend compulsory classes, department meetings, supervision, when would you do your research (interviews, fieldwork, data gathering for instance)? I wouldn’t recommend it.

My DH works in academia, the money is rubbish. He hates it and wants to get back out to private sector again.

You wouldn't initially get £35 grand on a research fellow wage, it may be lower than that. Perhaps in London. You wouldn't be earning more than that for perhaps 5 or more years after the PhD, so more than 10 years from now! Permanent jobs are like gold dust. However, if you are flexible, and depending on your area (certain areas are quite sought after for both private and public work), you could have a job/career, it just isn't a given. Lots of my friends are jumping out, fed up of 2-3 year contracts and the casualization of the workforce (about 40/50% are on short term contracts).

In your situation, unless you feel compelled to do this research, I wouldn't- more for practical/money reasons, if that's not such a big deal you could afford to take a chance, it works for some people and I am happy with my career choice (but I know luck played a huge part in ending up with a permanent job).

I would say no. You know you can't afford to lose 35k a year for 6 years. You'll have no funding, no loans, nothing. You have no savings. How are you going to pay for this?

Sorry but it sounds financially a disaster. If you can get your employer to fund it then go for it, but doesn't sound like they will.

I finished mine last year and I found it hard. I started off full-time with paid study leave which meant it was worth it for me economically. I had maternity leave in the middle and then had to go back to work part -time - this was the hard part! I only just finished in time but I'm so glad I did. Tbh I wouldn't have started it without the paid study leave.

I'm currently half way through my PhD and really enjoying it. I'm full time and fully funded. My work let me take a career break, so I have a guaranteed job to return to (although they wouldn't help with funding). I also do some private part time work to supplement, but am incredibly fortunate that my husband is able to support us both independently of my (meagre) studentship contribution. Could you have the option of doing some more flexible work around the PhD so it would be a drop but not a full drop to bursary? I wouldn't like to take it on with a full time job!

Obviously I'm not at the horrible write up bit yet, but I have really not found it worse than a full time job up until now. It's quite industry based, I find it really interesting. My main downside has been feeling quite isolated and lonely - there aren't loads of full time PhD students around and only about 1/3 go into uni regularly (myself included) because it's much more convenient to work from home. Having said that, that is a big plus, that I can organise my time and be completely autonomous - I often choose to work in the evenings and on the weekend if my husband is also working so then we can have time off together, or I can do things on week days.

This does really depend on what subject you're in though - lab based phds seem to be much more intense and require you to physically be there.I live in London and my uni is in London and my interview was still Skype, btw, so I wouldn't worry about travelling for that, they should be able to accommodate.

When I finish, I'm hoping to do a mix of academic teaching and back to my previous career (hopefully with some improved prospects). I am currently pregnant though so taking an interruption and I'll probably be back warning everyone off when I'm trying to write up with a toddler...!!!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

@lauriemarlow has it right. PhDs are really hard work. Impossible if you are working full time. I took four years for mine and I did it FT and funded, I then did two postdocs, moved into a teaching fellowship but I'm now in industry and FFS, it is so much better now, out of academia. I genuinely had to have two babies to save me from burn out (obvs had babies cos I wanted kids but the mat leave broke me free of the relentless workload). The work is all-consuming, 24/7 when you are collecting data. Traveling quite a bit too. It really takes the piss and work-life balance is non-existent.

So academia wasn't for me and I haven't looked back since going to private sector. Though, having had a massive moan, if a PhD is what you want, you understand what you are getting into and you have the support at home to see it through, then good luck to you!

Can you get a job at a uni. I work for a rg uni and staff members get fees paid 90% I think and class time. If you are above a pay grade. If you leave after 2 years you have to pay it back

user I did think about that but when I look on jobs.ac.uk I can't see any mention of f/t positions that include PhD study, especially ones which are permanent and in areas that interest me.

I'm not sure if I want to do actual teaching, at least not big classes. I'm more interested in the research side.

I'm now leaning more towards 'no' after reading the answers to this thread...I think the time and expense and no guarantee of a better future is why.

I also wouldn't want to move to another part of the country - DH's work is here, my family are here, DD is happy at school here.

I’m sorry op I would agree with the others unless it was funded I wouldn’t entertain the idea and even if it was it would be a big slog. I’m doing an MA too and ruled out PHD early doors given the salaries and work/life balance in academia

I left academia about 6 weeks ago. Your starting salary is unlikely to equal your current wage, to be brutally honest. You say also that you're not able to be flexible with regards to relocation (for the first few years, you're likely to have to move around a lot because of the dreaded 9 month contract - unless you're a scientist, in which case it will be longer before you'll be permanent most likely, but your postdoc contracts will likely be longer). Be aware, as PP have said, that part-time and self-funded PhD's (as two separate markers) have huge rates of attrition, and realistically, you'll be looking at 6-8 years before completing.

I think you should only do a PhD if you genuinely can't imagine not doing one - and in your particular situation, from what you've written, I wouldn't.

If you are passionate about your subject and really want to do a PhD, then apply for one which is fully funded and do it full time, obviously giving up your job. I don't know what your area is, but I did a Cell Biology PhD and it was 50-60 hours a week (more at times) for 3 years, with few holidays. You need to really love your project and be prepared to be totally immersed in it. A PhD is very different to a masters: it is much more personal.

What field, OP?

I have a DPhil (which took three years FT, without children, and with a partner who was doing a PhD in the same subject at the same time, and still nearly broke me), am an academic in a humanities subject, and I would say you should not unless you are fully-funded and have a clear career path that needs a doctorate.

Academic jobs are few and far between even my best doctoral students of the last ten years struggled to get fiercely competitive post-docs, and one, who had a small child and a husband who was an academic with a job at the university I used to teach at, did an international commute for two years to the post-doc she eventually got are all-consuming, and you need to be willing to move for them, and you would probably be looking at a post-doc and potentially several maternity covers/one year positions before having any chance of landing something permanent.

And as others have said, it's an increasingly casualised workforce, Brexit is fucking with the whole HE scene, and the satisfaction level among academics is at an all-time low -- I know several people who have taken voluntary severance/early retirement, or left for unrelated jobs with less stress.

Bluntly, you'd be mad.