to want to do a PhD?

[fcekinghell]

I'm currently studying a Masters paid for by my employer. It involves a research dissertation and I hope to submit this summer. I'm really enjoying the research and the topic. I've always liked to learn and build up my qualifications and the topic is something I've had a long term interest in and work experience in. My tutor is confident I'll obtain a distinction and is encouraging me to consider going on to do a PhD.

I'm in two minds about whether to do one though, and I'm weighing up the pros and cons. I wanted to know what others would do in my circumstances?

Pros:
Getting further qualifications
Getting to call myself 'doctor'
Potentially moving into an academic job (there is little scope for progression with my current employer, most people just move side ways)
Continuing to study something that really interests me
Potentially getting a higher salary if entering an academic role
I'm about to finish paying off my car so the monthly payments could maybe go towards study instead and no worse off
DH is supportive

Cons:
I work full time, earning £35,000 a year. DH earns about the same. I cannot afford to give up this salary to do a full time PhD as we have mortgage and bills to pay
I have no savings nor would I be eligible for any loans/grants - the new £25k loan is not applicable in Scotland it seems
I could do the OU and pay instalments but it's still over 2 thou a year, going up each year
It would be 6 years of study and take up most of my free time
We want to start putting some money away for our DD's future and I also want a new kitchen!
I'm disabled which could make travelling for interview etc difficult
My DM says spend the money on my house, holidays, and DD's future and further study is not needed.
Would I even get into academia and would it be better paid/benefits etc than the public sector which I'm currently in?

So my questions is basically WWYD?

Most people with PhDs don't become academics. DD's math teacher has a PhD in math, for instance (he seems to love his job). I can think of very many people with PhDs working outside academia.

MN is the most negative place I can think of for talking about what it's like to work in academia. You'd think from stuff you read here that every academic walks around in constant terrible stress, deep depression, constantly moaning, and the institutions are hemorraging anybody with half a brain and no ability to recruit.

Where I work there are lots of career researchers who have PhDs & decent work life balance. Only the awkward personalities seem to move around country much (and not that much, tbh). I don't think we moan about work more than anybody in their job moans about work. Being a lecturer is more demanding but if you're good you get to Prof level which seems to be very well paid & mean lots of travel & great opportunities. Maybe my caveat is to say I work more with quantitative methods, but the qualitative-competent people seem to be hugely in demand, too! I actually don't think I've ever met anyone IRL who hated working in academia.

Thank you again everyone.

I never really considered it before my Masters, but my supervisor is really enthusiastic about me doing one and saying I will definitely get a distinction and should try moving into academia. I guess I let her sweep me away a bit.

I don't want to out myself but my research area would probably come under social policy.

It's enormously rewarding, and a great sense of achievement when you've finished. Being able to call yourself 'Doctor' does give you a buzz, even if you don't use the title in every day life.

But I was single with no dependents when I did mine. I have a friend who really struggled with hers - husband with health problems, full time teaching job, elderly parent. Although she did finish in the end.

Could you make a long term plan to do one in the future? Keep up with your subject, go to conferences, start saving, look at going part time? All very well to think of saving for your dd's future, but you and your dh also have a future; one shouldn't come at the expense of the other.

I actually don't think I've ever met anyone IRL who hated working in academia. confused

This

I know so many people who do hate working in academia but it's easy to get stuck in it somehow particularly if you end up within a very niche field.
PhDs can break you. My experience is only with science and lab based ones. There are obviously good times but by the end of it some people are glad to see the back of it and want to get into industry straight away. Shorter contracts are becoming more typical, yes Brexit has played a part and you have to go where the jobs go which isn't great when you already have a family.

How old is DD? FT work and a Phd sounds a lot for a parent.

You might find it useful to investigate ALL your career options.

What else could you do to improve your career prospects? If you want to improve your salary, there will be many easier and cheaper ways to do that than a PhD.

Would you need a PhD to move into academia in your field?

I’m an academic and don’t have a PhD, only one of my colleagues has a PhD. The university are encouraging us to consider starting phds but we’re all resisting I think. I wouldn’t want to do one. I’m not that ambitious, would be happy doing what I’m doing for ever.

Definitely not worth it. You won't get anywhere near as much out of it as a qualification compared to what ylu put into it. I'm an academic.

I actually don't think I've ever met anyone IRL who hated working in academia.

Bits of it were great. It really should be an amazing job - intellectual freedom, doing something you’re really passionate about etc. The problem is all the other shit: useless university HR and organisational support, constantly needing to raise money (our lab cost upwards of a million a year to run - all that had to be funded by us.) the short term contracts, the dead mans shoes type promotions.

It should be wonderful. I’m glad I did it but I’m also glad I left.

I'm doing a part-time professional doctorate whilst working full-time in HE (not a research role). I also put up with about 6 years of zero hours contracts, low pay compared to less well qualified friends in industry, and did a lot of work for nothing to get my current job.

The PhD is important for any career progression and if there is restructuring (all but guaranteed as universities seem to be subject to constant change), for keeping my job.I could get away with not having one. I also feel that I'd forever regret not doing one, but I currently work 8-6.30 in my paid job, study 8-10pm, all day both days at the weekend, and it takes up most of my annual leave. No DC. I am utterly exhausted, stressed and have no life. I'd never forgive myself if I did, but I'd love to quit. Other people might cope better though.

Think carefully. I've done all of this, the Dr. title doesn't mean much to me (although, I could probably win the noble prize and I still wouldn't be good enough - that's a personal issue of mine). What I would say though is a PhD is an extensive undertaking. It is VERY important to have a good supervisor. I wouldn't advise anyone putting themselves through this if they have a socially/financially difficult background. It is a true test of personality and character. If you are going into academia, the salaries aren't worth it for what you endure.

I know I'm being negative here. If you are passionate about your subject, if you have a good supervisor, if your life isn't too chaotic in other areas, by all means go for it. Other PhD's here will be able to relate to how difficult it can be though. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide :)

@tellycushion - Yes. I acknowledge not everyone will have this experience though. But I know what you are on about totally!

Im doing an MA and would like a phd but im going to sit on it for a bit and see how things pan out because it is such a commitment. Academia doesnt look a great career to me tbh, i would see how far the MA takes you in 'real life'

As everyone has said without funding and a clear path I simply wouldn’t do it. I’m an academic and I know lots of academics who really struggle, feel undervalued and battle with the insecure contracts

@notaregularpenguin at some places they want not only PhDs but make us become fellows of the HEA. A lot of places won't consider you if you aren't a PhD or almost there. The place I used to work really put the pressure on and it was part of our contract that we HAD to get the fellowship. Your place sounds like a good one. But I think universities who allow people to get lecturing positions without PhDs are few and far between now (I'm only talking from experience though - more than happy to be corrected! )

You won't get anywhere near as much out of it as a qualification compared to what you put into it.

It depends what you want to get out of it, doesn't it? If it's just a route to a high paid job/career, probably not. If it's personal development, the satisfaction of knowing that you've reached your full potential, gone as far as you can in that direction, then yes you do get a lot out of it.

The chances of you getting a FT, permanent academic post without being willing to move around the country are virtually zero—even then, you would struggle.

On a general note, recruiting PhD students is necessary for career advancement (something students don’t necessarily think about when they’re being encouraged to keep going by a lecturer).

I’m an academic and it is all-consuming, never-ending work. I think the descriptions on here pretty accurate. But I do still enjoy it and feel lucky to have a permanent post.

when ae you going to have time for your DC?

I did mine straight after my first degree (when single and used to having no money). It was full-time and fully-funded. I remember that a condition of the funding was not working any more than a few hours a week (not that there was time for anything else anyway! I remember going into the lab on Christmas day once, just to check on an experiment).

Mine is biological chemistry. I'm not in academia and moved into the industry side of science, which is well-paid (especially so here in Switzerland where I now live).

I don't think I'd do it in your position though OP, not without being full-time and having funding & kids to care for. What subject is it in?

Fellow of HEA is much easier to get than a PhD, it’s about the equivalent of getting a PGCert. I work in academia as a lecturer entering via a professional route, so don’t have a PhD. They are keen for me to work for one and would waive the fees, but don’t have any solutions to my questions about reduced workload to fit even a small amount of it in, so although I would quite like to study for a PhD I am holding off at the moment, I don’t want to absent myself from every part of family life for the next 5-6 years too. Teaching is required for nearly all research staff, particularly the early career ones in our institution, and often for 200-300 students at a time with the 1st yr undergrads who tend to get shared liberally across the more junior staff. It’s an ‘interesting’ environment to work in, in both a good and a bad way. Some of the variety and autonomy that make it a great job also make it hideous at times as these translate into ridiculous and competing workload, deadlines and isolation. It’s certainly not easy. It is however the only job I’ve had where I’ve not been bored within 3 years. Colleagues are definitely the most interesting I have ever worked with, but probably otoh also drive me madder at times than any others I’ve worked with

The chances of you getting a FT, permanent academic post without being willing to move around the country are virtually zero—even then, you would struggle.

^This. Also there is no way you would start on £35k.

I’m in academia. 7 years post-PhD and I’m only just earning over £35k. There are lots of reasons to be an academic but the money ain’t one of them!

I'm doing a part time PhD, and just coming up to my first year upgrade panel. So far, it hasn't been any more onerous than my MSc and I've hit deadlines early (so it's been not just that I'm lazy and taking my time!). I am fortunate that I'm not working (though am a parent/carer) so I have fewer competing demands. I don't think I'd have had the headspace to totally immerse myself if I was also working in my old professional role.

I am not doing it because of any career ambitions, it is purely because I identified a gap in research in a topic I'm passionate about, and want to fill the gap myself. For me, the right supervisors were key and more important than location/prestige, and so far it feels like I made the right call. Depending on the topic, it helps that so much can be done virtually and I have very little need to be on campus. Being organised and methodical really helps.

I'm in social sciences so I don't know how much this applies more broadly, but the fact that I love methodological stuff as well as my topic is a bonus, because it doesn't matter how interesting your topic is, a great proportion of the PhD is about why and how you do what you do.

I started as a permanent lecturer on 33k with no PhD, no masters and my degree isn’t actually in the subject I lecture in. I guess that’s not very common though.