Was IBU with DD 18?

[4teensandababy]

Morning Mumsnetters. Long time poster, but would appreciate your honest opinion on this.

DD1 has just turned 18. She is studying for her A Levels and we have just finished her University application for September. She’s very intelligent, but has always been somewhat lazy when it comes to chores, and general helpfulness around the house. She’s also been missing sixth form a bit lately and lying about lessons being cancelled. She has a part time retail job which she’s had for a couple of years though and is doing really well there.

Thursday night I spoke with her at 8.30pm, and she said she was going out with friends (didn’t mention who) straight from work, and would be back later.

I woke up Friday (yesterday) morning, with DD2 16 (with whom she shares a bedroom) panicking and asking where she was. I immediately called DD1’s mobile - no answer. I tried a few times with no joy. I then messaged her usual circle of friends and asked if they knew where she was. None of them were with her the previous night nor knew where she was.
At this point I’m panicking a little. For context, she has never stayed out overnight without telling me, nor has run away. She has always up until now let me know exactly what she’s up to.
An hour passes, and I’ve called everyone I can think of and no one knows where she is. I then call the police to see if anything has happened to her, along with the hospital. Again, no sign of her.
I then put up a Facebook post asking if anyone knows where she is.

Fast forward another hour and I get a text message from her. She says that she fell asleep at someone’s house and she will be home soon. Can I please remove the Facebook post immediately because its embarrassing for her.

I remove the post and go to work. I get a message from sixth form at 10am saying she hasn’t turned up for lessons. She calls me at work, and I tell her we will talk later that evening, but there will be consequences.

Last night it totally blew up. She did apologise, but it was followed by a BUT. I.e. “I’m sorry, but I fell asleep. What was I supposed to do?”
I tried explaining how worried everyone was, but in her mind we massively over reacted as it was a mistake, and I’ve embarrassed her. She then throws out the “I’m 18, and I can do what I like” comment.
I told her that yes, she’s 18, but whilst living under my roof she still has to abide by my rules.
She then decides that she’s leaving and going to stay at GP’s house (Her fathers parents).

We will be sitting down today to talk it through, but I’d love opinions on whether I over reacted (which her dads side of the family think I did), should she be punished etc? She’s very headstrong, and a lot like me which is why we clash. She has so much potential, but her lack of work and effort at school right now means she could well be throwing it all away.

If you got this far, thanks for reading. All suggestions and opinions gratefully received.

'next', not 'nest'... obvs

If she is living in your home then she abides by your rules.

Those rules can be as simple as the common courtesy of letting you know if she decides not to return at night, and tidying up after herself, not leaving mess around etc.

The only consequence you have available is that if she continually flouts it then she would have to move out, but that is a really big gun to fire and you aren't there yet.

Explain to her firmly that you just expect basic manners so that you don't worry. Explain that adults worry about each other too and the same common courtesy of explaining when your plans have changed is the mature response. Say that by contrast, "I'm 18 and can do what I want" is a childish and immature response because that freedom, whilst legally there, does carry some responsibility to those close to us.

You did overreact, though I understand why.

What consequences did you mean? Remember that you no longer have the power to actually ground her, so be careful.

Who was she with?
She clearly lied to you... she wasn't with anyone you phoned.

and no YANBU
whilst she still lives with you you need to know she is safe. You wouldn't stay out all night and not let anyone know where you were. It's not about age it's about respect.

And whilst you're supporting her financially she has to put the work/effort in at college. If she can't be arsed, then get a job and move out / contribute.

You over-reacted. And you were embarrassing.

YANBU OP. My eldest is just 19. Dont have a problrm with her staying out as long as I get a text at some point in the night and if she isn't home by lunchtime the next day then I expect a phone call to let me know shes OK. If she stays out again again a text/call is expected

IMO it isnt really your business who she is with- she is of an age when she needs to stand on her own two feet and learn from her mistakes.

With being an adult comes the responsiblilty of learning to be considerate of others though.

As far as consequences go, I told her that if she wants to be treated like an adult then she cooks her own dinner and clears up after herself.
She’s welcome to use the facilities at home, but she is now responsible for cooking, cleaning and her own washing.
Also in anger (I know) I told her I was going to cancel her phone contract (which I pay for) and she could get her own

I agree with Flump.

You can’t rightly expect to discipline her like a kid. She is an adult. I have said much the same as Flump to my eldest...that we won’t stop him doing things but that it’s mature and considerate to let us know what his plans are, as we do him.

YANBU

Yes, she is 18 and she has a degree of autonomy which you need to respect and understand she is a young adult.

But, she is living under your roof and by your rules. All she needs to do is text you to advise of her plans. That is not difficult. Explain that you are not going to make comment on her plans - you just need to know when to expect her in and when to worry.

It's not difficult for her but she is making it difficult.

I understand you won't want her to flunk college but maybe you need to step back and let her make some mistakes that she has to learn from without you. So, she may have to re-do a year - but that is as a result of her behaviour - not yours. She needs to learn that her actions have consequences so she makes the changes herself.

Remind yourself that in the big bag world, your mum does not do your work or run your life for you.

I don't think you were unreasonable at all, OP. Your daughter is not a child and hasn't been a young child for a long time, she's a young woman who needs to learn that there are consequences to behaviour. She's going to learn that from the outside world regardless. Learning from you is what society expects and it's a shame that many parents are derelict in that and the resultant product is lacking.

I would perhaps re-think the phone contract but I would be telling her that whilst she has the benefit of it, I would be expecting her to return my calls as I'm paying for it.

The cooking, cleaning, washing - all fine, she's old enough and so far, lazy. What does she do for you/her sister?

Saying it again though in MN speak... YANBU

I have a ds same age who is often out late at night and has once or twice stayed out without warning. Our take is "good manners, consideration for others, this is what adults do" rather than "I can punish you for this".

Seems to work better at an age where they know perfectly well that any hold you have on them barring kicking them out is a bit of an illusion. And of course if your one lever is "I can kick you out" then you are not in a strong position to complain if they flounce out and go and live with somebody else.

While I absolutely agree with "my house, my rules" there is a downside to that if you don't actually want her to go and live with somebody else. So I would carry on stressing the "you are an adult now"- angle, as you have been doing.

Might also be a good idea to make things a bit more open-ended when she is going out. My ds will often say "I'm going to a party, not sure if I'll be coming back tonight or not" and that lets both of us off the hook: I can go to bed because he may not be coming back and he can go off knowing that he's got an option.

I would not, absolutely not, demand to know who a child this age is with, any more than I would demand to know the exact whereabouts of my brother if he is staying with us. If you expect the courtesy of adults from adult children, that cuts both ways.

"I don't need to know where you are, I don't need to know who you are sleeping with, but I do need to know when I should start getting worried- and btw I do need to know which one of us is cooking supper tomorrow."

Also, maybe you should train your 16yo to be prepared for the fact that her dsis is now an adult and that both their lives are going to change in consequence. Panicking because her dsis is out on the tiles does seem a bit exaggerated unless she actually does want to get her into trouble.

I've 3 older than this...you have to let go,they are adults now,you risk driving her away with your ..rules for under our roof. ...my advice is to back off and only offer advice if it's asked for ..

My Mum always texts to ask if I'm okay after a night on the piss... I am 33 and I left home 12 years ago!

4teens: and so she should be. When I was DD1s age I had her to look after, a house, a job and uni
and a relationship to keep alight.

DD1 and 2 have both had jobs since they were 16 (DD3 will be the same). Both do their own laundry/ironing as does DD3. I do the majority of the cooking but they help out.

Ask her what she'd say to her potential students who weren't attending regularly. Would she have a live-and-let-live attitude? If so, she wouldn't keep her job for long!

Maybe she has a new boyfriend !
I'm sure you don't really want her to leave, especially not on bad terms.
Have a chat with her, tell her that you reacted the way you did, because you'd explored all avenues, and were at a loss as to where she could be. Ask her to wear your shoes, and to understand why you were upset and angry.
She is eighteen, and yes, she is an adult, and that means taking responsibility and being considerate to others.
You can sort this, it's no big deal, on the whole she sounds like a good kid, let it go.

There are similar threads with women upset their husbands have not come home and they are worried. In general the feedback is their DPs are rude to not text that they are staying out late. I don’t think you overreacted. it’s something you have not had happen before. I think just sit down with your now adult daughter and agree boundaries you are both happy with.

I don't think you were overreacting at all. Would people be saying the same if you said it was your OH that did this? It's just common courtesy and respect to let someone know if you're not coming home just to stop people worrying- especially since this was not the norm for her. Ask her to imagine what she would have done if she'd woken and you weren't there and she'd tried all the places she could think of and then you didn't turn up for work. I bet she would have put up a FB post and called the police.

I agree that she's an adult and can choose what she does but that doesn't mean she just gets to disregard other people. Living together in a household, everybody has to give and take and she can't just behave like she would if she was living alone. Wanting to know your daughter is safe is not controlling.

How can you punish her? She's 18!!
I have an 18yo who may or may not be home tonight (I don't need to know either way).
My 16yo is tetchy like OP describes.
I am seeing both sides of this. Needs to be talked thru as what arrangement you BOTH would like to follow. Would you expect her to keep track of whether you got home, too?

My Mum always texts to ask if I'm okay after a night on the piss... I am 33 and I left home 12 years ago!

I do this with my Dd she is 26 and has her own house

You're mixing up so many different things together in the OP, like how she's doing at school and her general self-respect levels. Focus on one thing at a time & they can be separate. Do you really NEED to know where she is at night if she decides to stay out late? That's separate from how disappointed you may be in her college efforts or whether her self-esteem or consideration of others in general are acceptable.

Caribou58 Sorry, by that I meant that I’ve paid her accommodation deposit and filled out my bits for her Student Finance. She did the rest on her own.

Fair enough, sorry for drawing the wrong inference there!

"we have just finished her University application for September"

Seriously? For THIS September? Haven't you left it too late?

Anyway, yes, she has been thoughtless and selfish but you have over reacted. You need to calm things down now.

Arrange to meet her at a coffee shop (let her choose where) and say you want to start afresh. Say to her it's clear you both need to talk about how things will be going forwards and you hate falling out with her.

Ask her what she thinks would happen if she was sharing a flat with friends and one of them stayed out all night unexpectedly - would she be worried? Would she expect them to just ignore the fact she had gone missing and not bother about her? She will hopefully accept that it's basic manners to let people you live with, family or otherwise, know if you will be home.

I would apologise for the FB post and just say you were desperate and worried. I promise you OP this does all get better. My DD is 21 now and lives in London and shares all her news with me, we get on so much better now we don't live together

And yes, I still text her to make sure she is home Ok if I know she is on a big night out.

I remember being an 18 year old girl (simpler times!)

I also stayed in school, onto university. Yours sounds similar, good grades and so on, I was also an outrageous unbelievable chaotic mess around the house even though my brain was in good shape and I kept myself fancy as 18 year old do. It was just hard to see my bedroom floor. I was allowed to go out, I had enough freedom but not a dangerous amount, meaning I didn't hide things or feel the need to rebel because the usual things weren't forbidden, but there were well understood limits.

I do not think you are being unreasonable. At any age, a girl who shares a home with others, be in friends, family, partner, housemates, whatever, when we go out, we let a trusted person know where we are going and that we are safe. If we are unexpectedly not going to be home for whatever reason, we let someone know so they won't worry.

Expecting this of her is not about telling her what to do or treating her as a child, its adult behaviour! If she goes to university, she and her friends will need to learn to look out for each other in this way and stay in touch. Maybe explain it to her this way? Let her know you were worried because she is a young woman now setting out in the world, yes she is a free adult, but she will have to take care of her friends in future and let them take care of her, so they can do grown up things!

I'd stay away from punishing. I think that will cause more animosity and rebellion, 18 is a bit too old for punishments. She recognised it was a mistake and did apologise, even if it came with missing understanding of why it was a big deal. So maybe say you appreciate her apologising, you understand what happened, in future could she be sure to let someone know if she is settling in or thinking of staying out.

Although 18 is a bit old for punishments, no one is ever too old for my house my rules. When she has her own place one day and you go to stay with her, you will respect her home and her rules! If the rules at the moment are please keep in touch because we check in to make sure everyone is safe and no one worries, that is perfectly reasonable. She'll get that anywhere she lives!

I'm head strong too, I know that I would have been beyond shocked and humiliated at the idea of punishment at that age, but I would appreciate a sit down grown up conversation. Explain how you felt and that you know she is a young adult and growing up and that's a wonderful thing. Have tea together, or coffee, or whatever, just something a little bit grown up conversation style like you would with a friend, rather than a family meeting to tell off a child. Your relationship is developing and if you can put friendship respect adult things in place now, it could serve you well later as well as now.

For missing sixth form - maybe ask why she's missing some and ask if she's ok, rather than criticise. I started missing classes once at university (as did all my super successful intelligent friends), because we were able to judge what was useful, what was no help whatsoever, what was too easy and so time best spent studying or catching up on rest. I would say to her that lying is not acceptable. That's a rule of mine. If she misses a class and her reason was oh I just couldn't be bothered today, its so boring and I'll get the notes from a friend, ok, that's for her to judge. Lying however is not good moral behaviour. Definitely talk to her about what's going on in case something like a year out is a good idea, if she is unsure about her path or if she is actually happy and just handling her schedule her way. Ask gently and let her talk.

You haven't overreacted about the staying out and not letting you know, but there's an opportunity now for this very young woman to start shaping a new relationship with you without her being difficult or clashing with you, just see the young woman in her!

Thank you all for your replies so far. Rest assured, every comment I’m taking on board.

For some clarity. I’ve not asked her where she’s going or who with for a long time. I’ve always trusted her, and on the whole is very sensible. She has always volunteered this information to me. She’s always been very open and honest about things generally. She came out last year, and had a girlfriend for quite some time.

As a parent I’ve let her have parties, have a drink underage, never grounded her, and always been here for her to talk to. All I’ve asked from any of my children, is that they treat me and their siblings with respect, and help around the house. I work full time, so they all help with general duties such as dishwasher, hoovering etc.

Of course I don’t want her to leave home permanently. But on the other hand, she’s the catalyst of so many arguments in the house with her siblings. She’s generally quite lazy, rarely does her chores, and just has a bit of an attitude problem. Her siblings are totally different, and it does upset them when she’s so horrid to them.

I’d love her to return, but I think we need a good talk about what’s expected in terms of behaviour and attitude first?

With so many in the house, you already know that so much of peaceful personality management is managing everyone's expectations. When you talk about "What's expected" make sure you put your behaviour on the table for her to make requests about too. You don't want this to seem like you're just imposing a billion rules she has no say in.

Whatever agreement you make with the 18yo will trickle down to being norm with the others, to think long term about what's sustainable.