To be annoyed when people think the word ‘chav’

[DrScully]

...is offensive to working class people?

Sorted by the ‘students laughing at the working classes’ thread.

My Mum is proper working class. Grew up in extreme poverty in a big industrial city. She left school at 15, got a job. Says ‘breakfast, dinner and tea’ and ‘toilet’, would say ‘serviette’ and ‘living room’.

She uses the word chav to mean a certain type of person, someone of low intelligence and education, who has poor taste and does not conduct themselves with dignities. She would never, in a million years, associate it with being working class.

For example, she would call Katie Price a ‘chav’, because of the way she dresses, what she’s called her kids etc, despite the fact that Katie Price is a millionaire who was raised middle class, riding horses.

She would never call someone a chav who was a normal working class person, e.g a single mum in jeans and a tshirt who works as a cleaner, a bus driver, a bin man etc.

It annoys me when people chime in on threads with ‘how dare you use chav, it’s very classist and offensive towards the working class.’ While I understand it’s not a nice thing to say, not all working class people are stood about smoking in tracksuits! My understanding is it is a taste based insult, not a class based one like pleb.

AIBU over this? It’s not a word I fling around willy billy by any means, and I can see that it’s not a nice thing to call someone, but why the hell does it now mean all working class people?!

Am I

shirley that is an awesome film!

smeddum I’m too old now to think any of it is cool

@NotUmbongoUnchained tbh I’m too old to give a shit about being cool now. I just pay the bills when my kids tell me what’s “in” I’m quite happy not to be under any pressure any more!

Thank you to the people who ctually bloody understand the emo vs chav summer of violence 2007 thing. Subculture of chavs are the lowest of the low nothing to do with their class. I grew up in my teens as a working class familyabsent father same as the other working class people in my town. We were split into emos. And self proclaimed chavs. Someone just asked how they made my life hell despite me pointing out me and my friends were viciously assaulted every time we left the house. Broken teeth several concussions bruised body cuts and bruised mild head injurys. But i am evil for saying that they are chavs.

@MarthaArthur I am sorry that happened to you, it’s awful.

Thank you smeddum. I understand how calling things chavvy is offensive but i dont agree that the term chav doesnt have its place. Me and myfriends are still affected 10 years later and it reminds me of telling the teacher at the time when a boy pulled a knife on me. The teacher laughed and told me if i didnt dress like that (eyeliner and spikey bracelets) then i wouldnt have to worry.

@MarthaArthur that’s awful, and in the context you describe I absolutely think that the word chav has its place. To be honest given your experiences I don’t have any right to tell you otherwise even if I didn’t agree.

It’s the distortion and sneering and assumptions upthread I object to.

All teenagers can be loud and swear-y, doubt a group of private school boys (generalisation) would be called chavs though

No, they're Hooray Henry's.

Our school had to stage an intervention as everyone was just trying to kill each other.

I completely agree with the OP - absolutely not synonymous with being working class.

Also disagree with those posters saying that it is nevertheless an offensive word - since as I understand it, to be designated a chav you generally exhibit anti-social, crass and impulsive behaviour (i.e. have the self control of a toddler and are inclined to be aggressive when crossed), in which case you deserve the negative label

Thats undeestandable. I do feel people get called chavvy when they are not. To me its not a class thing as i am the same class. Its not bout ammount of children or relationships but it is about misplaced pride in thug behaviour and refusing education and dressing a certain way. I have chavs where i live some are really bad some are just trying to be cool. Some people just follow the fashion. Baby names shouldnt be reffered to as chavvy thats nasty.

A Chav describes a certain type of person. Just like saying goth, emo, hipster etc. It is a description, not an insult and nothing like racism

‘Ghetto girl’ is a description too. Pretty similar stereotype to what some of the pp’s are saying a chav is.

Would you describe someone as ghetto?

it is about misplaced pride in thug behaviour and refusing education and dressing a certain way

That’s the most succinct definition I’ve seen and I agree.

smeddum thank you for understanding my point.

‘Ghetto girl’ is a description too. Pretty similar stereotype to what some of the pp’s are saying a chav is.

Where on this thread have I explicitly described what a chav is?

You are projecting.

Katie Price? Raised middle class?
I don't think so.

it is about misplaced pride in thug behaviour and refusing education and dressing a certain way

So if you do all of that and are middle class - are you a chav?

What about just dressing in a certain way and being working class?

Chav describes a certain type of person. Just like saying goth, emo, hipster etc. It is a description, not an insult and nothing like racism
So with no negative connotations then? In fact it is a compliment!

Yea if you dressed and acted like a lout and were middle class you would be a chav. Hope that helps.

So with no negative connotations then? In fact it is a compliment!

They might see it as such!

There are lazy, unpleasant people in the world who deserve to be called out on their behaviour.

Yep and calling people Chav because they live in poverty, lack education, display indicators of an abusive and neglectful upbringing, have names like Chardonnay or -Mae and dress a certain way, is lazy, unpleasant behaviour.

@MarthaArthur no problem, the way you describe it and explain it makes sense and is also not sneery or making assumptions, it’s a clear explanation of something very personal and painful to you. I wish you hadn’t been subjected to such horrendous behaviour x

A Chav describes a certain type of person. Just like saying goth, emo, hipster etc. It is a description, not an insult and nothing like racism.

Given the word likely came from the Romani for boy then yes, it probably could be considered racist.

IIIustriousIyIllogical -All the other words of that ilk have been reclaimed by the Travelling community & aren't deemed appropriate anymore (in public anyway).

Chava/Chavvy is a very old English Gypsy (Romany) word. It means boy or child. Like many Romany words, over time it has also been used as slang by non Romany. The words 'Kushti' (good) and 'Mush' (mate or man) are other well known examples
www.larp.com/jahavra/language.html
Chavvy had no negative connotations years ago, it was a bit like saying lad or laddy,. The Romany word Chorrah/Chorrer does have negative connotations though, it is the word for thief, but it is also a word used in parts of the north of England as slang to describe a youth.

Irish 'Travellers' have recently started to use some of these old English Gypsy words, in I suppose you could say an attempt at cultural appropriation. IT's are not Gypsies/Romany, but they do (or did?) have their own interesting Irish based language called Shelta.

'Chav' is insulting now because it has been seized upon by mostly middle class youths and the left wing middle class as a way of sneering at working class youth culture. I say 'culture' because just because someone is a chav it doesn't mean they are a criminal or a lout. Even though chavs call each other chavs, it can still be a term of abuse.
As another poster has mentioned, I have met loads of so called chavs who are actually decent and approachable people

Have to say, it's quite amusing to see a poster on this thread trying to police language and call it offensive and yet used the phrase "thick chavs who voted brexit" after the referendum.

Seems its allowed in certain circumstances...