AIBU about gender/sports in this private school?

[Sofiathefirst2346]

I’m looking at brochures of two private schools locally in case my eldest daughter could apply for a scholarship. I’ve never been to private school. I don’t know anyone who has been to private school.

I’m a single parent with two daughters, and I wholly believe in bringing them up to play with/compete/do whatever they want despite traditional gender norms. (So far this has backfired as all they ever want to do is “typical girly stuff”)

One of these schools listed all the sports available. For boys: rugby, football, cricket and a boys hockey team. For girls: hockey, netball.

AIBU this sends out all the wrong messages in this day and age? Why are the boys “allowed” a hockey team when the girls aren’t allowed a team in any of the more male dominated sports? I then carried on reading, noticing that girls HAVE to wear skirts and tights also.

None of this would bother my eldest, she loves wearing skirts, plays sports under duress and wouldn’t really care about the reinforcement of typical gender norms. It’s academic record is fabulous and the girls go on to further education just as (or more) qualified than the boys so AIBU that this snapshot of their sports and uniform policy is actually putting me off the school?

This is more of a problem in private schools than state as far as i can see. All my children were privately educated. I am not convinced I would do it again

You're being unreasonable.

It's very common (although boys hockey isn't).

Your daughter doesn't care.

Have you remained staunch in your beliefs that gender is all down to society despite your children 'meeting gender norms'? Despite you talking about the way you bring them up, I would guess that you've actually tried to push them into 'boy' stuff to prove a point.

So, you keep sticking with your ideology despite evidence in your own family to the contrary. Don't jepordise their education to prove a point though.

Yep same rules at my ds private school. Of course the beauty of private schools is that you don't have to send your child there if you don't like it.

Because there are usually enough girls who want to play football or rugby?

Im sure if she started and could find enough others to play, they could start

If you don't like the values and ethos of a PRIVATE school no less, just don't put your kid there!

By experience, sport teams are different for boys and girls because of the demand. There might be the odd girl who wants to play rugby, but nowhere near enough to form a full team. Even when you open the sports to both gender when they are little, you end up with a couple of girls max in a "boy" sport and vice-versa.

You can always ask if they would start a rugby female team if they had enough players.

YABU about the uniform. If you don't like it, just don't apply. Many parents will specifically apply for that school because of the uniform policy.

I'd say YANBU. I'd certainly want to probe if adherence to gender stereotypes is reflected in the classroom and societies.

I'm not sure whether this is a private v state issue or not. You might - paradoxically - want to consider girls' schools. They have a clear record of more girls participating in stereotypically 'male' subjects.

DS is at a mixed private school. At the end of last term they had a house netball tournament & the boys joined in, borrowing games kit from the girls. DS wore a very short games skirt which looked most fetching with his hairy legs.

It was all good spirited. So although they play different sports I'm not too worried about the reinforcing of gender stereotypes.

I think it's perfectly reasonable that these things might put you off. I looked at two (almost identical) mixed state comprehensives and both seemed largely fine, but when I walked into one A-level art class to find it was entirely female, I mentally crossed the school off my list.

Yes I think there is almost no way to eliminate social limits on what boys and girls are supposed to do - almost no way, except education. School should be your first ally in saying to all girls and all boys 'there are no limits except those in your own minds; go get 'em and we will support you all the way.' If the school is saying 'there are no limits, except that you lot with vaginas have to wear skirts, and those with penises can't play netball' they are just putting people in boxes. Not good enough.

YABVU. There are hardly any school girls' rugby teams out there, so who are they going to play against?

Besides, I don't even want my son to play rugby really.

Plus, at the girls' private school I attended, 53 girls did physics A level. That would be basically unheard of at a state school.

This all very much the norm. Sports teams are limited by demand within the school and competition outside. Realistically, even if they found enough girls willing to play rugby to form a team they won't be able to play matches because other schools won't have teams.

The school uniform thing is just a popular stylistic choice combined with a learning opportunity. In private schools the point of a uniform is to teach children how to dress well and take care of their clothes. Smart dressing us more if an issue for girls where skirts are concerned than trousers which are hard to get wrong. Skirts also tend to look nicer on women than trousers (a good half I'd women look terrible in trousers because they just don't have the necessary build) so it us easier to create a smart looking student body by telling all the girls to wear skirts.

It us not about sending a message. Both are practical choices more than anything.

I haven’t actually pushed “boy stuff” at them. They have had the opportunity to follow their own interests which happen to be the same as mine... dance, more specifically, ballet 😂

I am looking at various schools, I went to an all girls school and we live in the catchment area for that school and I think they did a great job in making us girls feel like we could do anything the boys did.

I’m not going to get too hung up on the uniform, it just struck me after thinking about the sports issue.

Yes, if she wanted to do any of the “boys” sports I’m sure she could lobby for a team to be set up but, as I said earlier, she’s not remotely interested in sports.

Not having had much experience with private education, I guess I’m just slightly disappointed to have the shine taken off what I would have expected to be an excellent all round education that isn’t dependant upon gender. (Obviously that might only be applicable to the sports part which in the grand scheme of things is just one morning a week.)

I shall think of many probing questions to ask on the open day to see if it’s a non issue or is something I would be concerned about.

Oh and cross dressing is very very common at private schools as a pp mentioned above. Private schools really don't care about gender stereotypes by and large. In fact I would say that they don't care about most social norms beyond manners and elocution.

I wonder if you're looking for things to dislike about these schools because of any preconceptions you may have about 'private schools'
There is really no such thing as a typical private school - some are good, some poor, some highly academic, some not at all academic, some are very traditional, others are very modern, some sporty, some focus more on arts and music. At my private school the girls played cricket and football if they wanted (it was a sporty school with a huge sports provision and amazing facilities). I briefly attended a smaller private school, with shocking sports facilities and nobody played much at all.

Given that your DDs aren't showing any interest in football/cricket/rugby etc, then it's a moot point anyway. But even if they did, you can always find an after school club for them. I reached a high standard in a sport not offered by my school because it was very unusual. I played after school and at weekends.

If you're not keen on these particular private schools, just look at a few more brochures until you find one you like more.

DairyisClosed I’m shocked.

“A good half of women don’t look good in trousers because of their build”

Asking women to wear skirts for school so they LOOK better isn’t a practicality as you say, it’s telling women that the way that they look is more important than what hey can do in the clothes they wear.

I have very few predispositions about private schools. I’ve spent a lot of my time researching different schools and types of schooling over the years out of pure interest. She would be going on a full scholarship if she went as I am on a very small income.

My DCs are at a co-ed private school. The girls do loads of football in school and lunchtime/after school clubs, but there are not many local teams for them to play matches against.

All the children do all the sports, including boys doing netball.

Par for the course when it comes to private I’m afraid. My dds’ state school is big on girls rugby and football, especially football. There is no shortage of girls’ football teams in the state sector around here to play against! Interestingly, two of the biggest independent schools in our area are actively scouting for girl football players, offering scholarships for the most promising players... so perhaps the tide is turning...

Plus, at the girls' private school I attended, 53 girls did physics A level. That would be basically unheard of at a state school.

I would guess that being 'girls' was more of a factor than the 'private'. My DD went to a girls state school; while the physics a level class wasn't that large it was pretty healthy, and the largest subjects were maths, chemistry and biology. And they did football and tag rugby as well as hockey and netball.

“Plus, at the girls' private school I attended, 53 girls did physics A level. That would be basically unheard of at a state school.”
Really? Why do you say that?

not really much of a selection of sports, all the shitty team games with balls that cause so much bullying. netball is the least damaging but you do wonder why men dont play it....

i hope better options come up, this limited range is why so many get put off sport at school.

Private schools vary enormously. In all manner of ways.

I would suggest that you find one that fits your ethos and that you therefore feel comfortable supporting financially and entrusting your girls to.

I went to an all girls school that was academic and for sure I never even got a whiff of anything being off limits, or an "unusual" choice of subject or whatever, that stuff never crossed my mind and when it hit me later in education it was a real shock.

Speaking to other who went to all girls schools, unless they are certain religious ones, you seem to get a more feminist ethos almost by default. Meaning girls can do whatever, things that society codes feminine and also masculine, it's just not an issue.

You can get other problems though so certainly look at more than just the academic & ethos around not being restricted for girls - what is the pastoral care like, does the place feel happy etc. My school was rife with eating disorders (very high pressure environment) and there were problems with cliques and bullying although less so in my class.

at the girls' private school I attended, 53 girls did physics A level. That would be basically unheard of at a state school.

Not really. It would have to be a big sixth form for fifty-three kids to be doing any one particular subject but it's very normal in girls' state schools for a very large proportion of the cohort to do physics, chemistry etc A levels, and has been since my own time at a girls' grammar in the late 90s.

As a general rule the evidence suggests that single-sex education tends to benefit girls, both in the state and the independent sector.

I wouldn't send any child of mine to a school that insisted girls wear skirts. I don't care what facilities it has, what sports it does, how many A stars they get... if the bottom line is that girls are decorative. And that is what a skirts only policy is saying.

Sofia bear in mind that even with a full scholarship for the fees, there are an awful lot of other expenses. Mine aren't private but I have seen threads on here and remember when I was young that the £££ for special uniforms, books and stuff can all add up. If you are thinking of going ahead it would be worth checking the "hidden" costs and seeing that you can manage those. (I assume the full scholarship is just fees).