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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Potential Cheeky Fucker (with diagram)

88 replies

MissTeri · 01/05/2018 17:23

I may have me a PCF but wanted to ask other opinions on this first.

PCF has bought the flat above mine and is doing lots of work that will take up to 3 months, lots of noise/dust etc but I don't mind as it needs doing. Builder has been apologetic about noise etc I've said don't worry but we bump into each other often and have a chat now and then about PCFs plans for the flat.

Yesterday we got chatting about the garden. PFC garden is at the back and builder says he's having decking put in having all this landscaping and what not, says it's costing him X amount of money etc. It took a minute to dawn on me that the ONLY way a digger can access his garden is through my front garden, by taking a huge chunk of hedge from the bottom - builder confirms this and says they'll need to put a ramp up my garden steps and remove my fencing half way up! Builder was talking like this is a done deal and that I should ask PCF to dig up the bottom of my garden and get it levelled (it's sloped) by way of making things right again.

Upstairs owns. I rent from local housing association. Obviously permission will have to be sought from LHA but what about me? Do I get a say legally or not?

My other neighbour has been waiting patiently for an allotment for years, last year I told him he can use my bottom garden to grow veg in, we'd planned on doing it together with my son but haven't yet started. Now I'm assuming we'll have to wait for PCF to sort out his garden before we can work on mine?

Little bit miffed to be hearing of this after PCF has already priced it all up and then I spotted PCF stood on the path that cuts through my garden earlier, stood for ages just looking at my garden as if to decide what he's going to do with it! Hmm I'm not sure how bothered I am about him plodding through the garden with a digger, it will be noisy and mucky and mean that the garden is out of use to us for the duration but I don't mind putting the veg garden on hold for a while. I'd like to know, from a legal point of view as a tenant, if I can object to this?

Potential Cheeky Fucker (with diagram)
OP posts:
WomaninGreen · 01/05/2018 21:25

Tot, I'd be amazed if he had

The number of people who have just done stuff without applying for permission, in my borough, is very high. I thought it was something to do with Cameron relaxing planning laws?

Entire pubs have been demolished without permission in London..well, two that I know of.

We were rattled out of bed by pile driving for a building next door that didn't have permission. Neighbour on other side had his TV and mirrors fall off the wall and smash.

WomaninGreen · 01/05/2018 21:26

Sorry i I missed it but how would even know op was renting? I thought the builder just dumped stuff in her garden?

TotHappy · 01/05/2018 21:52

Yes, maybe so - I am not surprised that people think they can just do whatever to their own property without permission. I just find it hard to believe that anyone thinks they dont need permission to tear down a neighbour's fence. I can imagine someone thinking I'll approach the landowner' and not considering the a full tenant, if they were a cheeky fucker. But surely everyone knows you can't just use other peoples land how you want?! And he presumably knows that he doesn't own it himself?!

TotHappy · 01/05/2018 21:53

I suppose what I mean is... If he drives a digger through her garden, tears down her hedge etc etc and has no permission, surely that's not just a civil matter of no planning, or trespass, but a criminal matter i.e.criminal damage? And is anyone that stupid to think it isn't?

TorviBrightspear · 01/05/2018 22:05

I agree with @Cheesecake53 about taking pictures now, you never know what this chap will do.

And even if you get an agreement in writing, I doubt it'll be that easy. Your PCF hasn't bothered to talk to you and has assumed he can do what he wants, I'd be surprised if he kept to any sort of agreement.

Personally, I'd just say no, full stop.

titchy · 01/05/2018 22:18

How does he access his flat? Is there a shared path or something? Landscaping can be done without a digger, and materials can be delivered to the street and wheel barrowed round.... so if you tell him no it doesn't necessarily stop the work.

Tistheseason17 · 01/05/2018 22:25

Take photos and negotiate for what you want out of it as builder suggests.

Original poster
MissTeri · 02/05/2018 06:57

Sorry i I missed it but how would even know op was renting? I thought the builder just dumped stuff in her garden? The buyer may have asked the previous owners daughter (previous owners passed away and owners daughter and estate agent arranged the sale). The builder didn't put the stuff in the garden but the man who was delivering the materials did. In fairness the builder seems like a nice bloke who has kept me in the loop in regards to how long the work upstairs will take, apologising for the noise and the fact the materials were just dumped in my garden.

How does he access his flat? Is there a shared path or something? Landscaping can be done without a digger, and materials can be delivered to the street and wheel barrowed round.... so if you tell him no it doesn't necessarily stop the work.

Have updated the picture to show, the green path leading up through my garden is how he accesses it. It's up a flight of steps from the pavement/road then past a section of my garden which is fenced off from the lower part. That's the fence that would need removing. The whole garden is on a slop (my garden and his) so I imagine it would be very difficult to do the work without a digger.

Potential Cheeky Fucker (with diagram)
OP posts:
Original poster
MissTeri · 02/05/2018 06:58

Slope not slop!! Grin

OP posts:
GlitteryFluff · 02/05/2018 07:44

Hmm So he must have in his deeds that he has permission to use your garden to access his?
If that's the case then I don't know how it works . I would say he doesn't have permission to remove fences and what not but allowed to wheelbarrow stuff through his normal walkway?

ChasedByBees · 02/05/2018 08:02

If he has right of way, then your HA would still like to know his plans.

The gardnlaw forum is quite useful on these matters.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 02/05/2018 08:07

If he has right of way it will probably be like the one across my garden... for walking, no wheels and restricted to specific uses, like coal and large furniture delivery or as an emergency exit !

He is being a CF...

Socksey · 02/05/2018 08:08

Not rtft but.... talk to HA and remember you havevthe right to 'quiet enjoyment' or the full property that you rent so HA couldn't give permission without your permission

Pinkandpurplehairedlady · 02/05/2018 08:10

I would talk to the HA. I had a similar issue last year when my next door neighbour put up a huge extension. I agreed to the fence panels being removed for a couple of weeks to make access easier but then came home to find scaffolding in my garden........ it took a year for me to have my garden back to myself and now they’ve put the fence back up in the wrong place so I essentially have a strip of my neighbours land on my side of the fence. They now assume they have right of access to this small strip by going into my garden whenever they want to. Prior to this we were good friends but it’s ruined the friendship as I feel they’ve just run roughshod over me.

Rafflesway · 02/05/2018 08:11

Also, if it is agreed that PcF can access your land and remove hedges and fencing, ensure you obtain something, ideally in writing, agreeing that same will be replaced as it was originally.

We had similar with a neighbouring property - we both own. New neighbours also wanted to landscape their rear garden but the digger needed to remove our fence dividing our land from their path for access purpose.

They did ask and we agreed on the proviso same was replaced. (Verbal agreement). CF neighbours then tried to replace our fence with sleepers. When we said this was not acceptable they then said they would only replace with fencing if we paid half the cost 😱. In the end we threatened legal action so they did rebuild the fence but had it built just on their boundary so no longer ours. As you can imagine, we no longer speak but no issue as we are very detached.

BrieAndChilli · 02/05/2018 08:14

Will the definitely need to do that? When my friend had an extension they brought the digger in in pieces and rebuilt it in the back garden as she only had a small alley as access

BreakfastAtSquiffanys · 02/05/2018 11:11

Your bit about the path makes his CFness more understandable.
He has a obvious Right of Way through your property so he may be assuming that this means he has automatic right for digger access.
Howver as others have pointed out, ROW frequently have restrictions.
as this ROW is accessed via steps it is likely to be a On Foot only one.

You need to speak to HA as a matter of urgency, then speak to neighbour.
It is possible that he has already cleared it with HA and has bypassed you

BlueSapp · 02/05/2018 11:27

Using a digger is just for his convenience, any garden work could be completed without it it would take a lot longer but that's his problem, not yours.

nonbikerchick · 02/05/2018 12:25

Eagerly awaiting an update on what the HA say when you call them OP Smile

Willow2017 · 02/05/2018 13:01

Right of way on a path does not =ripping up fences and hedges to get diggers through.

Phone HA asap as you rent the property and could be held responsible for allowing damage to property. Cf neigjbiur8only needs to say you have permission or didnt object and its up to you to prove him wrong.
Protect yourself whether you agrre to it or not by finding out if HA will allow this or have even been asked about it first. Any building work that affects your property/privacy/etc needs to be brought to your attention via planning dept. If you havent had letter from HA then its probably safe to say he hasnt contacted them.

TheNoodlesIncident · 02/05/2018 13:11

I agree with PP, take lots of photos showing how your garden looks now, how the boundaries are defined (fences, hedges, etc) and where they are. If you can negotiate for the builder to improve the aspect of your garden as part of the deal, so much the better.

If you allow this, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to grow things for the rest of the year as you’ll have missed spring This isn't so, plants grow until the falling light levels and temperatures drop low enough to provoke dormancy (and some will continue if they flower in winter for example).

Ruddyuseless · 02/05/2018 13:20

I think it would have been good manners of the neighbours to tell you about all of this work beforehand, and to tell you of his intention to gain permission from the HA

It may be that the HA have approved his request and not informed you, which again is bad manners

However

In the nicest possible way, it's not your garden and it's not your land.

TorviBrightspear · 02/05/2018 13:25

In the nicest possible way, it's not your garden and it's not your land. But as she's renting, she does have rights, and does not have to agree to allow a digger over/rip up hedges.

BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil · 02/05/2018 13:32

I cant say this enough- THIS MAY NOT BE YOUR DECISION TO MAKE.

As a tenant, you are entitled to your right to enjoy your property. This does not mean that you have the the authority to allow access to PCF with a digger.

I rent a HA property myself.

You cannot authorise him leaving a digger go over your property without asking the HA!! Ask the HA and put the kibosh on anything until you have verification.

Original poster
MissTeri · 03/05/2018 12:28

Update!

I called HA yesterday and they sent a surveyor around to see me, he's just gone.

He's not happy that they have assumed this will be happening when they haven't even discussed it with HA and haven't even had the decency to ask me, instead I was told what would be happening.

I told him my concerns which are the mess, noise level, not having use of my garden, removal of hedge because at this time of year the birds are nesting and I believe it would be illegal to remove it for this reason (?), the safety aspect, potential damage and the time frame for any damage to be righted.

Firstly he wants me to ask the owner (if I see him) to call him to discuss what plans he has and other details such as time frame, disruption, damage etc. He said he can't make the overall decision, that's up to his manager, but I can state my concerns as a tenant which could impact the decision. He didn't say if I could just outright say no and I stupidly forgot to ask.
He also asked me to inform the owner and builder if I see them that should they enter my garden at any point then HA will view this as tresspassing.
If any works begin without consultation with HA then they will stop the work immediately and they won't be able to continue.
He is going to try and contact the owner himself but as of yet hasn't got his details.
He's promised to keep me in the loop so I will know of any decisions made and what it will entail.
Overall I'm happy with that. I'm not sure if I will object if it gets given the go ahead, it will depend on the details when I get told them.

OP posts:
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