Potential Cheeky Fucker (with diagram)

[MissTeri]

I may have me a PCF but wanted to ask other opinions on this first.

PCF has bought the flat above mine and is doing lots of work that will take up to 3 months, lots of noise/dust etc but I don't mind as it needs doing. Builder has been apologetic about noise etc I've said don't worry but we bump into each other often and have a chat now and then about PCFs plans for the flat.

Yesterday we got chatting about the garden. PFC garden is at the back and builder says he's having decking put in having all this landscaping and what not, says it's costing him X amount of money etc. It took a minute to dawn on me that the ONLY way a digger can access his garden is through my front garden, by taking a huge chunk of hedge from the bottom - builder confirms this and says they'll need to put a ramp up my garden steps and remove my fencing half way up! Builder was talking like this is a done deal and that I should ask PCF to dig up the bottom of my garden and get it levelled (it's sloped) by way of making things right again.

Upstairs owns. I rent from local housing association. Obviously permission will have to be sought from LHA but what about me? Do I get a say legally or not?

My other neighbour has been waiting patiently for an allotment for years, last year I told him he can use my bottom garden to grow veg in, we'd planned on doing it together with my son but haven't yet started. Now I'm assuming we'll have to wait for PCF to sort out his garden before we can work on mine?

Little bit miffed to be hearing of this after PCF has already priced it all up and then I spotted PCF stood on the path that cuts through my garden earlier, stood for ages just looking at my garden as if to decide what he's going to do with it! I'm not sure how bothered I am about him plodding through the garden with a digger, it will be noisy and mucky and mean that the garden is out of use to us for the duration but I don't mind putting the veg garden on hold for a while. I'd like to know, from a legal point of view as a tenant, if I can object to this?

Looking at your diagram, PCF's garden could be approached from several other directions, inconveniencing other people instead of you. Suggest alternative access points as nearer.

I would go to HA first if they have had someone ask permission.

Then think about what you want your garden to look like afterwards. I would be tempted to go and spend £20 at a garden centre, dig it over a bit and shove some plug plants in to make it look established. Then insist at a minimum it is reinstated as a veg/flower garden.

I suspect that your best play here may have been offered to you already by the builder when he says to arrange with your neighbour an agreement by which you also benefit. If you want to do a veg garden, you could save yourself a lot of work by having the site levelled, for free, as compensation from your neighbour for the inconvenience they are putting you to! Make sure you have a written agreement that any damages to your garden will be made good, too.

Inform your landlord and check that PCF does not have a right of way over your garden (the answer is probably no but best to check). Tell your landlord, PCF and the builder in writing that you do not consent to access over your garden. You're entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property and that doesn't include diggers driving through the garden. Even if your landlord gave permission to PCF, as the tenant you can still say no. And anyway, why would your landlord give permission for something that doesn't benefit them and causes damage to the property? Imo PCF thinks he can do whatever he wants and needs a short sharp shock.

EmilyGB Can't access from any other side sadly. The back of the gardens is wooded area as is one of the other sides of his garden. The side that would mean access through next doors back garden wouldn't work because it's too high up, there's a bank going up towards to the garden from the pavement. Will try get a picture now.

Also someone saying 'just a week' doesn't mean it will take a week and then they'll instantly make your garden look good again.

I don't know if you get a say but agree, tell HA immediately
Hopefully they'll say no

@MissTeri you may not have the authority to make this decision. If pcf is a cf then he might start doing it anyway.

You don’t want to be liable for someone else being a cf.

Well I'll phone HA tomorrow morning and let you know what they say. If this is something that will go ahead no matter what then I'm doing what Frouby suggest because it's brilliant, maybe, just maybe I'll out cheeky fucker him

You don’t want to be liable for someone else being a cf. - I know, thats what my mums worried about, that they'll just start, be forced to abandon by the HA and then I'll be the one told to put it right!

As others have suggested then speak to the HA to find out what their policy is. If it’s not a straight up no from them then you may as well try to get something out of CF upstairs for the inconvenience. The builder’s comments about levelling suggest he’s open to negotiation. So ask for the levelling along with say raised beds for your allotment, a £50 gift voucher for the local garden centre and any unexpected to damages to your garden as a result of the work to be fixed at his expense. If he agrees get it in writing.

I would check planning permission online and look at the title deed for both flats to check to see exactly who owns the land.

You do have choices. The HA firstly has to approve access. Even if the HA were to say yes, you then have the right to refuse access. The builder and neighbour are not entitled to go on your property whether you own it or rent it. They’ve already done it, which is bloody outrageous. The only way round them ultimately getting access if the HA said yes and you said no would be for the HA to give you notice and they’re hardly likely to do that.

Sorry I meant to say, that is unless he has been given rights of access in the deeds.

Hope you get somewhere and find out legally what you can do.

The housing association can’t give him permission to use any part of your property - as long as you are renting it you have a legal right to quiet enjoyment, and this means that the landlord can’t allow access to anyone else unless it’s an absolute emergency (ie a gas leak).

Slight threadjack, but this reminds me of a chapel near my parents’ house which was converted to a residential property. There was very little land with it. The developer told the farmer whose land surrounded the new house that he would be buying some of it for his garden and drive. Said farmer said no; he told my dad that he would have been willing to consider selling some of the land if planning permission could be obtained for change of use, but he didn’t like the way the developer went about it. (The developer sold the house for less than he spent on it.)
I suspect OP is in a similar position; willing to co-operate but not wanting to be taken advantage of.

I suspect OP is in a similar position; willing to co-operate but not wanting to be taken advantage of. Absolutely this.

It was only earlier this week I was walking home and saw a big builders lorry outside with various materials on it. Man in the lorry asks if I know the phone number for PCF because he has material to drop off for him and can't get hold of him. Explained PCF had just bought the place so hadn't met him yet and had no idea of his phone number. I go into my flat and 5 minutes later the man in the lorry was using a crane/hoist thing on the back of the lorry and lowering the crap into my garden over the hedge!! I went out and said 'Sorry mate but that's MY garden not PCFs' - he apologised and I asked what materials it was (didn't want gravel, sand, cement etc being dumped there). Anyway, turns out it was wood so I said 'fine leave it there then' and builder took it away later that day. I get the work needs doing and I've not complained once about the noise, dust etc - nor about the things being left in the garden but I just feel like PCF is starting to take the piss a bit.

It's the surveyor department at your housing association you,need to speak to for this one

I think you've been a bit too accommodating tbh and piss taking is already commencing. The HA may say no anyway if approached, as they would have to get involved in complaints and negotiations if the works damage the property, including whichever parts of the boundary they are responsible for. Think carefully about what potential damage could occur- how close will the digger be to your outside wall? How often will it be driven to and fro? Will it be tearing up grass, which will take time to regrow, or going over patio and cracking it, which may well be something you are responsible for replacing rather than the HA? How likely is it that it will only take a week, given the possibility of bad weather, delays due to illness or unavailability of the builders, unforeseen problems with executing the plans? There's a lot more to it than just deciding if you're okay with them cutting down a bit of hedge, and the assumption that you will just put up with this disruption and damage isn't a sign of a reasonable neighbour who will be grateful for your help.

Say no

Things like that never last for just a week, they always take longer.
Your garden will be ruined and it's the beginning of the summer (hopefully) when you'll actually want to use the garden and have the windows open.

Instead it will be dirty, noisy, your garden will be destroyed, you lose your privacy and there is the potential for damage to your house and everything in the garden and I'll bet £5 he doesn't put it all right at the end.

He's shown what his true colours are by not talking to you before making his plans. He doesn't care about you, only his own plans.

You're so right.

If you were a man and/or owner he would have asked.

I think there are some good suggestions here already. After all you might have to live with that neighbour for some time.

I just thought to add that in any case it might be good if you take pictures of your garden and the fencing as it is now (or with the plants etc :)), in case the digger damages something and the CF claims that was already so.

I would say no. There are a whole bunch of legal issues as well as the enjoyment of your garden. If you allow this, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to grow things for the rest of the year as you’ll have missed spring. The HA may insist on a ‘no’ anyway.

I'd be amazed if he hasn't already contacted the HA about this - surely no one is that entitled to think they can use other peoples land without a by your leave? I think you're right, he sees you as a lowly renter who doesn't need to be consulted and sadly I fear they may,have already come to an arrangement with him and not bothered to tell you. I had no idea about this being able to refuse access thing either - it's not how my rentals have ever worked! We always thought we had to allow access to landlords at any reasonable time, for anything. The last ones, who were developing the house into a holiday let while we were living out our notice, took the absolute piss!