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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I'm pretty sure my fiancé just said pretty girls should expect to get molested

69 replies

IHeartMaryLennox · 28/04/2018 23:44

And I don't know what to do.

We were watching this travel programme where they went to Rome. I've traveled Italy pretty extensively as I used to work summer language schools over there and I said something like Rome was amazing but not my favourite. He's only ever been to Rome so was incredulous and asked why. I said 'I don't know, a few reasons, I was there during a heatwave, didn't have great food and was molested twice!' (Once sitting on a park bench an elderly man rubbed his hand on my thigh and in a bar a man put his hands on my boobs)

Fiancé said 'you are fit though, can't blame them'

This was way before I met fiancé, I was 25. I'm 32 now and we've been together three years.

So I did go a bit WTF at him. He then said oh sorry I didn't realise you meant actually physically molested I thought you just got cat called or something. He then said well it's your fault we've been together three years and you never told me this (was not a big event, though that's not the point- the point is he implied I asked for it in some way....I don't know)

He's sort of tried to apologise but it was a reallycrap one, along the lines of 'ok sorry I made a stupid comment but you'd never told me about that'

I WASN'T EVEN BOTHERED ABOUT IT. I AM bothered by his attitude though that attractive people 'incite' unwanted sexual attention....oh god am I completely over reacting? He's an intelligent man and I can't believe he said it, but instead of being mortified he went massively on the defensive.

OP posts:
ToPlanZ · 29/04/2018 01:08

I'm appalled for you. It's hard to believe he could be so insensitive and misogynistic. There's so many things wrong with his reaction it makes my blood boil. So pretty women should expect sexual abuse, and less pretty women of course don't get harassed. Sexual assault has nothing to do with appearance, it is about power and a sense of entitlement. Given what youve been through I'm sorry but he should have educated himself fully about this. Is it just me that is sick of men perpetuating this kind of rot. Theyve got sisters, daughters, mothers, partners when will they wake up and realise this kind of complicit bullshit is what allows these abuses to continue. i told a male work colleague off this week at work. He referred to his ex sils Facebook friends as a coven for supporting her. Yes she is dramatic by all accounts however he has a male friend who is a total drama queen. I pointed out that because a group of women offer support it does not entitle him and his pals\chums\coven to refer to them as witches and the incredible double standard he was engaging in. Don't think it helps now he probably thinks I'm emotional, irrational and over reacting. More clichés!!!

WesternMeadowlark · 29/04/2018 01:13

There's no way it could ever work as a compliment, or as a joke, because people who molest others don't see their victims as human beings who are attractive, they see them as objects to use.

I know that it's tiresome to keep hearing this being said, but it's true: sexual abuse isn't about one person finding another attractive, it is about one person thinking that they're entitled to the body and/or peace of mind of another.

[For absolute proof, look at the fact that lots of people are catcalled/assaulted by people who tell them they're ugly.]

It's not remotely the same thing as them interacting socially with a human being they think is hot. For someone to suggest that it is shows that they don't understand what sexual abuse is. And that would make me feel unsafe with them, to be honest.

That goes for them basing a joking remark on the premise that these kinds of abusers are interacting with a person they find attractive. For the joke to work, you have to buy into that.

crunchymint · 29/04/2018 01:23

OP I too would be really concerned if my DP said something like this. Not many men really respect women and sometimes it is small comments that give away their real attitudes.

tinkael · 29/04/2018 01:43

well certain users on mum's net think pretty girls should also be sexually harassed or lie about it

PurpleSea · 29/04/2018 01:44

There's no way it could ever work as a compliment, or as a joke, because people who molest others don't see their victims as human beings who are attractive, they see them as objects to use.

But that's the thing; because OP's DF doesn't molest women (I assume), how would he know the way they think?

As a woman who has been molested myself, I didn't even realise I had been objectified until I was in my late twenties and I started thinking about it seriously. I still don't feel in the slightest "traumatised" by it, I had always just accepted it as what men did. Confused

I don't think we can expect every man to know exactly why molesters do it and understand the level of trauma each woman goes through which varies massively from woman to woman. The only thing we can hope for is that they are willing to ask, learn and apologise when they put their foot in it.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but if my OH said that he hated Spain because of the weather, food and women touching his bum, I might giggle and make a silly joke if I didn't realise it had traumatised him.

tinkael · 29/04/2018 01:46

and btw op I believe you and his comment was wrong I have heard this before from men too it's disgusting

Original poster
IHeartMaryLennox · 29/04/2018 01:47

It didn't traumatise me... that's exactly what I'm saying.... at the time I didn't think much of it really. I am upset about DP's attitude towards it.

OP posts:
PookieDo · 29/04/2018 01:54

It’s ok it upset you and if he is a good person he will take something away from it, think about it and learn something. I’m open to the fact not everyone is as aware as they could be on subjects such as these. It doesn’t automatically make them horrible people, just ignorant

starsandstuff · 29/04/2018 01:57

No. No. No. For me, deal breaker. Fuck that. I don't give a shit about the "well men don't get it..." bullshit. Good men do. Good people do. It's disgusting to be a rape apologist, no matter what end of the spectrum and no matter what gender you are. If you make a joke about it you're part of the problem. If you don't get that you're part of the problem and apologise for it - fuck you. And all of that aside. If it's something that annoys YOU as a person and he doesn't apologise? Fuck. Him.

Homebird8 · 29/04/2018 02:03

I was there during a heatwave, didn't have great food and was molested twice!

If I had said that I would have expected a response more along the lines of Shit, that’s horrible. No wonder you prefer other places!

Weighing it up to see if molestation could be sanctioned would have made me really angry. YANBU OP.

Let him sulk. Let him think about whether he sees you as an object or a person. Let him decide whether how he feels about you might just make him a bit horrified on your behalf. Let him apologise properly.

Until then you are well within your rights to wonder whether this makes a big difference to the way you view him and your relationship.

dontgobaconmyheart · 29/04/2018 02:25

ugh, i'm the same age as you OP and would be so surprised offput by this from anyone i was dating, its the sort of thing my FIL (aged 60+) would come out with. As a previous poster pointed out, misogyny runs deep and he has just outed himself, it would disappoint me that he wasn't really sincerely apologetic either.
You gave him several chances to take it back or take it seriously and he didn't take them either. The ' you are fit though, can't blame them' is grim, if he thinks that is a compliment he is at best misguided and at worst, just vile.
At the end of the day it's as big of a deal as you want to make it i suppose, he has made you feel uncomfortable both at the time and after the fact, is it something you can forget? what would you do if you were on a date and they said this, would you see them again? Is he otherwise respectful to women (you and others?) or are there other incidences of this sort of thing in the 3 years?
I would want to discuss this with him again and see how contrite he really was, perhaps he was defensive as he was embarrassed about how awful he sounded, or perhaps you will get more of the same and can form an opinion of your own from there.
I'd not marry anyone who was saying 'you are fit though, can't blame them' re: any kind of sexual harassment or assault- it is horribly misogynistic, very excusing to assault/rape, shows serious immaturity and the fact he would think it is some sort of warped compliment is dire- would ring in my head forever more that he'd said that I expect. It would take a convincing and a serious conversation from him to assure me it was not reflective of his feelings/said in error.

Battleax · 29/04/2018 02:45

So he assumes it was verbal harassment, because he assumed any physical assault you’d ever experienced he would know about by now?

And then he made a puerile comment about verbal sexual harassment? Because he thinks it’s joke worthy?

He’s probably half an arsehole. Educate him.

Based on your thread title I was going to say LTB.

Whyarealltheusernamestaken · 29/04/2018 02:55

You know this man, we don’t. We are hearing a snapshot of conversation. If he’s a sexist pig leave him. If this was a one off jokingly remark somehow meaning to compliment you on being fit, then educate him.

GreenMeerkat · 29/04/2018 03:01

I can totally imagine my DH saying something like this. However, I would know it was a joke. He is in no way sexist or thinks it's acceptable for women to be molested if they're attractive, he'd have said it to try and be funny. But I know him, I know that's exactly what it meant and absolutely no harm intended.

You know your fiancé. Could this be the case or do you think he actually meant it?

GreenMeerkat · 29/04/2018 03:05

ETA: just read some of your other posts.

I think the fact you've explained it upset you, given your past and he hasn't apologised properly or understood your stance on it is more of an issue than the comment itself.

If my DH thought for one moment that comment would upset me or anything like that had happened to me in my past (thankfully it hasn't) he wouldn't dream of saying it.

Have another talk with him when you've calmed down and explain fully how it's made you feel. If he still doesn't apologise/understand then I'd start to be concerned.

Laserbird16 · 29/04/2018 03:53

I think most men have no idea how shitty the insidious harassment women experience is. DH and I have had some interesting conversations since the #meetoo movement and the birth of DD. DH has often said in his yoof he was pretty sure his flirting could have been harassment. That said if anyone ever said no that was absolutely fine. On the flip,side I've been on the receiving end of being grinded against etc and it was pretty normal but irksome back in the day. However, it is pretty shocking your DP seems to have no awareness that this behaviour is shitty and given your past experiences he seems very insensitive.

daphneduck · 29/04/2018 06:53

Sounds like a misjudged commet

Tink2007 · 29/04/2018 06:58

I think YABU. If you said it in the way you listed it, it came across as very flippant. If you said it in the same way to him, he may have thought you were saying it in a jokey manner.

Sleephead1 · 29/04/2018 07:27

I understand why your upset op I don't think a lot of men understand what its like to be a women what it's like to be grabbed by someone as they walk past or to be sitting minding your own business on train and someone to come over and make comments to you, or be stared at and made to feel uncomfortable, shouted at in the street and then everyone around is looking at you. I think some think it's a compliment and why would it bother you. They obviously understand about sexual assault and rape but I often find the more low level things women experience some men just don't understand. Hopefully you can speak to him about it again and he understands

PoorYorick · 29/04/2018 07:34

We all know those men. Do you want to be married to one of them?

Shoxfordian · 29/04/2018 07:36

Don't marry misogynists OP.
His attitude when you called him on it is telling you everything you need to know.

BillywilliamV · 29/04/2018 07:38

This was always going to end with people telling you to leave him, is that what you wanted?

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/04/2018 07:39

This sort of thing also does happen to (usually) young men as well. The general consensus until very recently has been to laugh it off and for it to be only what is expected. I could also imagine a woman on hearing about her bf having had his bum felt when younger in a night club saying “well you do have an irresistible arse”. Or some such.

It’s not right either way round. And of course I fully understand it happens far more to females. Imo it was perhaps a misjudged comment rather than definitely a misogynistic one. Or a gauche attempt to try to make you feel better. All you can do now is educate him.

Ardant · 29/04/2018 07:41

It's the bit where he says "oh I thought you just meant cat-called or something" which makes me think he's generally dismissive of it, and perhaps even thinks this is something you've gone on about this stuff too much and he just doesn't care about a certain level of it. That's the rubbish part, not his (perhaps jokey?) reaction to begin with.

applesisapple5 · 29/04/2018 07:48

Laserbird26 and Sleepyhead1 I agree. After #metoo a make friend asked on FB how many of his female friends had been molested in this 'casual' way when young(er) and he and other males were honestly shocked and sickened to find out it was every one of us. They just did not know, that these 'dirty old men' aren't just a joke, they exist and it's disgusting, but most of the women were saying 'well what would you do, who do you report it to, and I've just got on with my life' as the OP has.

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