To say no to the 6th Harry Potter book...

[TabbyTigger]

DD is 5. She’s just finished the first five Harry Potter books and, obviously, now wants to move onto the 6th. However from what I and other DCs remember, this one has more mature themes (romance/more detailed deaths) and is generally more complex. AIBU to ask her to wait a year or so before reading it or should I let her try and see how she does?

When I read books too advanced for me I just glazed over and missed those bits - I remember reading the Clan of the Cave Bear series i about grade 4 - what's that, 10 yo? (I loved horses and the second book is called Valley of the Horses...) ANyway, it contain some very explicit creepy sex scenes. I COMPLETELY missed these. Re-reading when I was 20 something I was amazed that I had missed them they really are weird and creepy but definitely wasn't scarred.

gingergenius
I'd stArt her on Anna Karenina, and bypass the pulp fiction. It's the only way.

^ lols

I'm done on this thread anyway. I have said all I need (and want) to say, and clearly I have hit a few raw nerves........ as people are getting quite angry and defensive.

So I shall bow out now..

My eldest dd is severely dyslexic and struggled with reading ...she could barely read biff and kipper books at age 7
We did read to her every night ( she especially liked the Narnia Chronicles , The Wind in the willows and The Hobbit)
However she finally started independent reading with the Twilight novels when she was 14 and developed her reading skills from thereon.
She then read all the HP novels within the space of a few months , chose A level English literature, reading dystopian novels and A level drama specialising in Shakespeare

She's has now got an MA in Philosophy( loved the good old Greek Philosphers) and also has MSc in teaching English and is more qualified than the headteacher at her first secondary school ( which had done nothing for her confidence )
She's been asked to do a PhD in linguistics at an RG uni
Her df was also a late reader ( also due to dyslexia) hasn't stopped him getting a degree in Medicine and Law
I also have a friend whose dd was an voracious reader from an early age , but didn't go to uni and is unemployed

Harry Potter hadn't been written when I was a child, but I was an early and enthusiastic reader. I first read The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe at 7, and the language is a little more dated in that. The themes of HP6 are little darker than they were back in books 5 or 4 so having come this far, I don't see much difference in accessibility, or scariness.

I enjoy reading and rereading, and to me the mark of a good book is that it can be read again and again with changing understanding. My understanding of books has been different at 7, 17, 27 and 37. Infact the greatest difference in my interpretation of literature has been in viewing the world through the eyes of a parent. Reading books like Roald Dahls' to my 7 year old (delayed reading skills but great comprehension) there is a conflict of my darker adult understanding of the world and my recollection of being his age and that lighter, superficial filter of childhood and him understanding them in the same way that I did.

If a child is simply decoding with no comprehension then that's a hollow experience. What is more likely for this kind of motivated independent reader is that they have sufficient understanding to follow the main plot and obvious details which is fine. A richer understanding including the full darkness of the likes of Voldemort's evil comes later. Before that it's factual, Voldemort kills Cedric, Bellatrix kills Sirius, Malfoy is about to kill Dumbledore but Snape does it instead.

Incidentally, I haven't twigged the word play of Knockturn Alley before reading this thread That's evaded me on numerous re-readings over the last 17 years or so! But that's why the series is so loved, because it is detailed and rich enough to stay fresh again and again

I've read the first book to DS and his reading ability puts me in control of the pace of reading the series (I'm gradually buying the illustrated versions as they are more accessible to him) but if he was able to pull them off the shelves to read through at his leisure then I wouldn't censor them and hold him back. If only I could process verbally reading 100 pages an hour like I could in my head! (I miss the days when the HP books were published and I'd await the delivery and spend the next few hours devouring them)

Argh, *knockturn. You're right.

I have one DC who is like the OP's DD, and one DC who is totally not at all at a level where they could attempt anything approaching HP at age 7.

We are big into books here.

Different DC are different.

OP has obviously had the experience that ALL her DC were the same - picked up reading fast. It's like having 3 x good sleeping babies, or whatever. Unusual, and skews your view point.

Fwiw, my reluctant reader had listened to all the HP books on audio by the age of 6, even the darker older ones. They enjoyed the story, and weren't traumatised. I sincerely hope that they'll go on to gain a love of reading and read them themselves, but who knows.

My voracious reader can devour books for a MUCh older age group. It is what it is.

I actively discouraged the able reader from moving on to 'older' books at an early age (and I would say 5-6 is early), mostly because whilst you can re-read things like the HP series at an older age and get different things from it, you can also miss out entirely on 'younger' books which you wouldn't go back to once you're 'too old' for them. There's absolutely TONS of stuff to read, and being encouraged into different things is fine. My DH is one of those "I read the Hobbit at 6 and enjoyed it" who is constantly pushing books slightly before they're emotionally ready for them, when I think no harm in waiting a bit longer to explore other books in the meantime...

The one thing that may concern me is what other books children may be missing out on while they are reading books they may be too young for. There are so many wonderful books more suited to this age group that even the most prolific reader may not have read yet.
YY @Iceweasel. This!

Wetting myself laughing at the "no child could understand that book at that age". Children are all different. Some have reading ages well ahead of their peers...who often catch up later.

I was reading, and understanding Lord of the Rings at age 6. Sadly, it didn't mean I was a genius. Ah, well.

My older daughter read the first three Harry Potter books at 6, and then the rest a year or so apart as soon as they were published. She loved them but I know she missed a lot. It didn't matter in the least. She re-read them several times over the years, and each time she got more out of them.

I think there is a danger that if you read some books too early it puts you off. I read Pride and Prejudice at primary school and thought it was the dullest book ever, so avoided Jane Austen for years, until I had to read some for A level, and then fell in love with it. Similarly, reading Silas Marner too early put me off George Elliot for years.

However, there is plenty in all the Harry Potters for a child to enjoy, even when most of it goes over their head.

OP has obviously had the experience that ALL her DC were the same - picked up reading fast. It's like having 3 x good sleeping babies, or whatever. Unusual, and skews your view point.

This is probably true - although my other DD, who I didn’t know until she was a bit older, didn’t like reading all that much until she was 7/8, but is now a very enthusiastic reader. She read all the Harry Potters back to back in year 4 of school.
I do think it’s odd to assume that because some kids can’t read/comprehend HP at 5, none can - DD can’t do her 3 times tables but I’m sure some year 1 kids can. She can do a pretty neat cartwheel and I know many of her friends are jealous, just as she’s jealous of her friend who can whistle.

DD would have lost interest long ago if she wasn’t following the stories and characters. Sure she doesn’t understand everything, but she understands something. My 12yo just read The Waste Land and when we discussed it she didn’t read it in the same way I do, but she didn’t have to. I studied lit at university so feel quite strongly that literature is as much about the reader as it is the writer. You can take what you want from a text.

Stopyourhavering that’s a lovely story! Glad your DD got into reading

I definitely have no intention of “pushing” her - I let her take the lead, and say no when I feel I should. Clarice Bean has been a yes. A request to read The Northern Lights Trilogy was a no, not yet.

I was reading, and understanding Lord of the Rings at age 6. Sadly, it didn't mean I was a genius. Ah, well.

And to think, I was just so convinced DD was on track for that Harvard Scholarship guess she’ll have to settle for Oxford.

Yep - I would have loved HP at that age. I was also reading anything and everything from the age of 2. My DF always said I'd read the Yellow Pages if there was nothing else around. I'm also a super speed reader who can easily read a book or two in a (child free) day, and our house is absolutely overrun with books, much to DP's disgust (no kindles here!!!). Sadly DD is nearly 3 and doesn't seem remotely interested in books compared to cars and daddy's iPad, wretched child.

And sadly yes - I'm another one who is definitely no nobel prize winning genius as a consequence - just your regular bookworm!

I'm trying to think what I loved at 5, although it'll probably show my age . Definitely the chronicles of narnia and the famous five/faraway tree/other Enid Blyton books. I think I would have liked the lemony snickett books. Ballet shoes, maybe? A little princess? Tottie (the dolls house book)? Oh and the Ursula moray Williams books - "gobbolino the witch's cat" and "the little wooden horse", they were brilliant.

I was a pretty voracious reader when I was a child and struggled with the concepts in books I was reading. I started on Harry Potter about the age of 6, and was pretty scared by the concepts coming through even that book - so hung on for another few years before reading the rest. I was able to understand the concepts I was reading about but wasn’t emotionally equipped to deal with them. So in that case it wasn’t really a lack of comprehension but but an excess compared to my emotional maturity.

Instead I devoured many many Enid blytons, polly and the wolf, naughty little sister, teddy Robinson, Izzie the panda (I think?) and Roald Dahl (again struggling emotionally with e.g the witches) then shifted onto Sherlock Holmes, Nancy drew, alex rider etc. It was definitely a hard balancing act between what I could and should read - especially as I would read basically every minute I wasn’t in school and could devour 2 or 3 books like teddy Robinson in a day so was borrowing 20 books a week from the library.

This thread reminds me I should indulge my love of reading again - I need to get a little nook set up for myself I think.

As I said, don't be bitter and angry because YOUR kids aren't as advanced as others. Makes you look pathetic. And your personal attack on me makes you look even MORE pathetic. Maybe try and read a little bit more with your kids, and teach THEM to read a bit more, instead of flaming me, and projecting your anger

My children are doing wonderfully at school thank you very much. I’m just not pathetic enough to boast about it on Mumsnet and make up ever more ridiculous tales of five year old prodigies to impress who exactly?

You sound like a very nasty piece of work. And for the record I have been reading to my children since birth and they love books but they are children not Oscar Wilde reincarnated.

I am just here to say you have amazing kids!

My children are doing wonderfully at school thank you very much. I’m just not pathetic enough to boast about it on Mumsnet and make up ever more ridiculous tales of five year old prodigies to impress who exactly?

And you’re the type of parent that is the reason I refuse to talk about my daughter to other parents at school. I’ve had parents go through her bag on play dates and then complain to the school about what she’s allowed to read etc.

Parents complaining because their kid isn’t off the reading scheme. The accusations of “pushy mother”. Why on earth would we invent that our kid could read whatever at 5 years old?

Surely you accept kids develop differently. Mine was a late walker and always a touch behind physically. I’d never assume people whose kids walked at 9 months were lying though. Bizarre stance!

I am perfectly prepared to believe that some children are very advanced readers- I’ve met some. Some children are vary advanced at all sorts of things. It’s a bell curve.

What I don’t like is when people who have exceptional children pretend that they aren’t exceptional- oh everyone in the class is reading Harry Potter/,doing calculus/Grade 8 on two instruments”. Be proud. Boast if you want to- it’s fun. But don’t be disingenuous. Don’t do the “Boden stealth boast”

Between reception and Year 1 your older daughter would have been 5-6, not '4 turning 5'- odd mistake to make as it's the very subject you're talking about.

Fizzy- reception and year one children can be 4- going on 5.

My dd was still 4 when she had completed reception class and still 5 when she finished year 1 (August birthday).

What I don’t like is when people who have exceptional children pretend that they aren’t exceptional- oh everyone in the class is reading Harry Potter/,doing calculus/Grade 8 on two instruments”. Be proud. Boast if you want to- it’s fun. But don’t be disingenuous. Don’t do the “Boden stealth boast

Exactly this! I have no problem at all with children reading what ever they want to jacques. I was an early reader and come from a family of readers. However I don’t think it’s helpful or pleasant to make other parents feel like shit by telling an anonymous Internet forum that 90 percent of the kids in DCs class are reading Shakespear. It is disingenuous to the extreme.

Fizzy. I'm a teacher and you're wrong. Sorry.

She said 'between reception and Year 1 (so she was 4 turning 5)' implying that that's the age range at that point, which it very much isn't. As you say it's only the very youngest that will be 4 turning 5 at the end of reception (and if in Scotland, none of them).

And I'm sure we would have had it pointed out to us if said older DD was not only reading all of HP in that year but was also the VERY YOUNGEST IN THE YEAR! 😂

ICan't - and I'm a parent so am just as aware of how school age ranges work as you, thanks. It's hardly something being a teacher qualifies you to know more about.

I read Jilly Cooper’s The Man Who Made Husbands Jealous at the age of 9 (my mum was clearing out cupboards and I noticed it and slipped off to my room with it) and genuinely thought it was about being in love and horses. All the more adult stuff I skimmed over because I didn’t understand.

There’s romance in HBP in that people fancy each other and there’s one description of snogging. When the death occurs at the end it’s a flash of green light followed by a chase. If she managed OotP I’d say she’s ok.

PlayingGrownUp

I agree that some of the adult concepts will pass a five year old by even if she can read the words.

And even if she understands the parts about people dying, the deaths in Harry Potter aren’t graphic or gruesome.

I don’t think she’s likely to be traumatised by the later books. She just won’t understand them 100%.

Encouraging a love of reading is the most important thing.

12yo DD is an August baby so in the summer between reception and year 1 she was 4 - she turned five at the end of August. 5yo DD is a July baby so in the summer between reception and year 1 she had just turned five.

And I know my children have been early advanced readers. However I don’t think they’re prodigies as some are making out here, as I know other early advanced readers at the same level. I don’t intend to make anyone feel bad - I don’t think it’s special to be an advanced reader. And I know other kids who are advanced readers will not necessarily be reading Harry Potter for a whole host of reasons.

However I started the thread because my child, a child who is 5-nearly-6, wants to read the 6th HP book and I was on the fence about letting her. Everyone else has made it about exceptional ability.

Yes, she’s good at reading. She’s good at reading because she likes reading and she picks things up quickly. She’s nothing special - plenty of other kids are the same, just as plenty of others are different and either don’t have an interest in reading or develop one later.