To be annoyed about other dogs

[Anewhope]

Every day we go on a walk to some nearby fields. My dog is a small spaniel and is obsessed with her ball. If another dog comes over she doesn't even glance at them, all she's bothered about is us and the ball.

Every day she gets mobbed by other, (usually bigger) dogs. It's not too bad if there's just one of them because she generally runs off and the owner can shout them back but recently there have been groups of 3 or 4 big dogs that come bounding over to us, so the owner isn't close enough to stop them. It happens every time, different owners and dogs.

My dog tries to get away, she isn't interested. But they end up all crowding around and jumping all over her. It's awful. She gets stressed and barks if there isn't any space for her to get away and I worry they might hurt her. I don't know how to stop it, I imagine it would be worse if my dog was on her lead cause she couldn't even get away.

Any advice? Would you say anything? Or do I just suck it up and let it go? Or change dog walk location? It's perfect for us other than that, she's a spaniel so needs that free, off lead time really.

The 'aggressive' action is the out of control dog charging up to my dogs. I and they don't have an issue with well behaved dogs who approach respectfully and use and read appropriate body language. If a dog trots up, has a quick sniff and then passes by that's fine. It's the over-hyped, bolshy, poorly trained and poorly socialised ones that come charging up at full pelt, often actually run right into my dogs, totally ignore their body language and warnings and won't leave them alone that are the problem. I am not going to just stand there and let a 25kg+ dog bounce all over my 12kg 13 year old spaniel, or even knock her clean off her feet which has happened more than once.

It's fairly clearly understood that you don't let children run up to strange dogs and get in their face as not all dogs like children and even friendly ones can find it overwhelming. I don't see how it's so difficult to grasp that the same applies to other dogs, not all dogs want to interact with other dogs when they are walking. Not all dogs find playing with strange dogs enjoyable - it is actually part of the normal canine maturation process that they lose interest in this (not always entirely but to a large extent) as they get older.

Socialising a puppy should be done under controlled conditions with well mannered dogs that are happy to be around puppies and who use good body language. That is how the pup then learns to be a well balanced adult dog. Taking them to the park to throw themselves at any and every dog they meet is not socialisation, it's laziness and a lack of understanding. Other people's dogs are not there to train your dog for you. It creates these overhyped adult dogs that retain the compulsion to charge at every dog they see and exhibit OTT play behaviours that a properly socialised dog leaves behind in puppyhood.

'Good manners' applies equally to dogs and humans. Dogs can and should exhibit good manners when interacting with people and with other dogs. They will be different manners for human or canine interaction but they are still either appropriate or inappropriate.

It's not a matter of never letting dogs interact with each other, it's having the basic courtesy of ensuring that your dog has been taught to do so in an appropriate manner, and asking other owners if their dogs are happy to play with other dogs or not.

What are you doing to forewarn owners that you don't want your dog to be approached @Jiminy?

Because I'm pretty sure that if you squirted water or lemon juice at a human who approached you in a non aggressive fashion, the police would be having words

I do have recall BTW, and two lovely well socialised friendly healthy dogs with no issues (how unfashionable I know)

I think some of the posts on here are unhinged.

At 7 months old I was walking her when a dog came pelting towards her, bundled her over again and again. I couldn't get the dog to leave her alone. The dog eventually pushed her into a ditch. All the time the owner kept shouting "It's ok, my dog is playing".

Bubble I'm sorry that happened to your dog and that it left her with ongoing fear issues. Sadly it's not at all uncommon because so many people don't bother to train or socialise their 'friendly' dogs properly. These are the owners and dogs I have an issue with, not the ones who pay attention to what their dog is doing and have trained and proofed a sound recall.

if yours can't read the body language of a friendly dog, and can't effectively communicate that it wants to be left alone then you do have to work on that, get a behaviourist, go to socialisation classes with a dog expert etc.

What about the 'friendly' dogs that can't read or don't heed the clear body language and warnings of the dogs that want to be left alone? They need to be kept under control until they are properly trained and appropriately socialised.

I think some of the posts on here are either deliberately obtuse or just plain hard of thinking.

Yes I agree with you there "vetoncall"

Well you've certainly helped prove my point anyway

VetOnCall. You're right, but some posters just don't want to understand that having a, what they deem, 'friendly' dog hurtling itself at your dog whose minding its own business is not acceptable.

Clearly in some peoples' view my small dog not wanting to be shoved about and jumped on by one or more large untrained dogs makes her lacking in dog friendliness and sociability.

She likes to play with her ball and interact with me, her owner. Silly me, I never realised that's not the way dog's are supposed to behave until I read this thread.

Can't we all have a bit of tolerance and keep this in perspective?

Ah you want tolerance for your healthy, happy, well-trained dogs to throw themselves at other people's dogs, because you're too idle / get some bizarre joy out of stressing other people's animals out?

There are two manners in which I disagree with this line of argument - firstly, as we all know, not all dogs are confident around other dogs. I have one who is a model citizen. I have another who is a troubled rescue - I walk him with a muzzle, because it's the only way to be sure he's safe, so you don't need to worry about the risk to your dog - but why is he not worthy of the same consideration? It's hugely detrimental to him psychologically to have other dogs throw themselves over him - but because they can't see the damage, feckless owners don't care... As such, he's walked at very odd times to avoid people; it's not fair on him to do otherwise - because other people can't be bothered to keep their animals under some semblance of control.

Secondly, I disagree in principle that pet ownership should be "fun". Rewarding, yes, but not universally fun, and if controlling your animal is "not fun", I think you probably shouldn't have it. My (good, non-rescue) dog is a pleasure, under control and never allowed to approach other people's dogs - he's infinitely more fun to have around because of that, actually.

I think this hedonistic expectation that dogs (and other animals) are there for the satisfaction of their owner, rather than as a significant responsibility which may be hugely rewarding, if the correct work is put in, to protect them and the world around them, is one of the biggest issues in companion animal welfare - since by extension, it encompasses ignorant owners of obese animals, untrained or dangerous animals, improperly kept exotics etc.

Would just add that I strongly suspect that if my small dog ran up to the larger dogs belonging to some of the posters on here and started yapping in their dog's face (which she wouldn't) they'd, quite understandably, be the first to come on here moaning about small yappy dogs getting in their dog's face.

That wouldn't be acceptable, why do they think it's acceptable for their large over 'friendly' dogs to leap all over my dog.

Excellent post Diseases.

Hopefully the oddly self-congratulatory owners of the 'healthy' dogs realise that their pets are not immune to becoming elderly, infirm, arthritic, deaf, blind or fearful following a bad experience.

This post has clearly highlighted why more & more non dog owners are calling for blanket 'dogs on leads' rules. Which is a shame because dogs deserve to run. But when people are excusing their dogs' bad behaviour or misplacing it as 'friendly' i guess this is what we should expect

"What about the 'friendly' dogs that can't read or don't heed the clear body language and warnings of the dogs that want to be left alone? They need to be kept under control until they are properly trained and appropriately socialised."

What I meant was perhaps the dog being approached is not giving off the correct signals to be left alone - if a dog is repeatedly alarmed by friendly dogs and repeatedly fails to remove them without resorting to snapping it suggests there is a problem there.

I'm not trying to put blame on the dog with the problem, I'm just trying to speculate what may be going wrong here and how it might be resolved.

Hopefully the oddly self-congratulatory owners of the 'healthy' dogs realise that their pets are not immune to becoming elderly, infirm, arthritic, deaf, blind or fearful following a bad experience.

I'm afraid I fear for the fate of their dogs if they do succumb to such issues. It's not fun having an old dog who can't play any more, is it?

“What I meant was perhaps the dog being approached is not giving off the correct signals to be left alone - if a dog is repeatedly alarmed by friendly dogs and repeatedly fails to remove them without resorting to snapping it suggests there is a problem there.”

I doubt it, I have a reactive dog, noticeably stiff tense to even a human as soon as a dog is in sight. Growling and barking by the time a dog is about 6 feet away, hackles up and will try to bite if they get closer than that (he’s muzzled and on lead anywhere there’s even a possibility of meeting dogs, though I do try to avoid them).

Still gets bounced on by “friendly” dogs.

@tabulahrasa

Ok, it was just a thought, its worth exploring all avenues then. Sorry this happens to your dog.

I have one older dog who doesn't always enjoy playing with the bouncy young things that approach. As he's aged dogs approach him less and less and I thought he was doing something subtle to convey his lack of interest that OP's dog needs to learn. No hugely obvious stance.

“As he's aged dogs approach him less and less and I thought he was doing something subtle to convey his lack of interest”

He probably is, but there enough dogs about that ignore even very obvious in your face full on just back off displays that I’d be very surprised if it was because a disinterested dog wasn’t displaying it.

In fairness in my case, their owners are also ignoring an on lead muzzled dog not walking on main paths, me actively trying to get well out of their way and telling them very loudly that my dog is not ok with other dogs, so to me it’s pretty obviously an issue with what the owner thinks is ok dog behaviour and what they’ve allowed their dog to learn.

My dogs response varies from either staring at me and the ball and completely ignoring the other dog, running out of the way, freezing and barking when crowded, or occasionally she will roll over on to her back in a submissive way, then she yelps and jumps up when they sniff her.

How on Earth do I teach her to give off 'sod off signals' ?!

I think owners who let their dog approach a muzzled, on lead dog are different to the ones who allow it with the OP's un-muzzled offlead dog. Both you and your dog are giving clues that should be respected.

But all dogs have their quirks and differences, responsible dog owners will prevent approach to dogs who obviously are avoiding it when they can.

But imagine somebody has a 10 month old rescue that they are teaching recall - they may well choose less dog heavy areas to do this, the same places you choose for your reactive dog.

We don't live in a perfect world, and it doesn't revolve around our particular circumstances. We have to prepare ourselves and our dogs for reality where we can, and accept that we can't always control our environment.

I had a similar problem last week. My dog was off lead enjoying a game of ball and a really big dog came bounding into the field. The owner had let it run ahead and was nowhere in sight. It circled my small poodle, made him nervous then a fight started. I had to pull my dog away and only then did the owner turn up to call him off

When my dog was going through his teenage no recall stage I drove to places that were in the middle of no where when it was only just light to walk him so we didn't interfere with anyone else.

Now his recall is great I started to relax the times and places we walked as he won't run up to other dogs as he just wants to play ball with me. Unfortunately I then found that some dog owners don't care that their big dog (and my experience has found it's mostly big dogs) start jumping on him when it is very clear he doesn't want it. Most of these dogs have rubbish recall which the owners don't seem to mind because I guess it's unlikely their dog is going to get hurt bouncing on a very submissive spaniel.

Tends to be more in parks rather than in the wilds of the countryside. I suspect because having an off lead dog which runs off is much harder to manage in the wild areas with horses/cows/deers etc. I have now gone back to walking my dogs in those areas again as I find that most dog owners that walk there tend to keep a good distance away and have good recall.

My dog is well socialised and is happy walking and playing with his pals at daycare. He doesn't however like big strange dogs pushing him about and I don't blame him. Don't get me wrong dogs and owners that approach cautiously and manage the interactions so it's just a sniff and continue are ok. Also if a dog is having a bad day and an owner comes running over to get them away and apologises because they know their dog is being a pest to mine is ok. It's the ones that don't care or think it's fun.

All I can suggest OP is trying at different times or looking for different locations as I have found it definitely makes a difference on the type of dog owners you may encounter.

“I think owners who let their dog approach a muzzled, on lead dog are different to the ones who allow it with the OP's un-muzzled offlead dog.”

Again I doubt it, my dog didn’t start as a muzzled on lead dog, that’s happened because of the off lead dogs.

He started off as a puppy with a joint problem, then a puppy recovering from an operation then an adult who had learned that other dogs hurt his joints because I have no way other than never taking him out of absolutely preventing other dogs coming over and bouncing on him.

“But imagine somebody has a 10 month old rescue that they are teaching recall - they may well choose less dog heavy areas to do this, the same places you choose for your reactive dog.”

Oh of course sometimes it’s people who are trying to train a dog and it’s gone wrong that day or sometimes it genuinely is a dog that’s never done that before and caught their owner off guard.

But honestly, mostly it’s not, you can tell when someone is trying to recall a dog and when they’re not.

So fellow dogs are meant to know that a fellow dog off the lead doesn't want them anywhere near? And the owner is meant to somehow be able to judge that too. I have had owners pick their dogs up as another dog approaches, I had someone lose the plot because my dog went up and sniffed there dog, no aggression just a sniff and lost the plot. Someone who had a dog off lead losing the plot because another dog wanted to play. I am a tough owner of a terrier who has a bit of an attitude if bothered. I keep him in the dog walking section of the park and put him on lead if I see him getting annoyed. However I find it frustrating that even in the dog off leash section of the park there are those that still pop round with their nervous dogs on lead and wonder when a dog approaches.... take your dogs to the lead area please...oh and as for the irritating large dog owners I have met a few of those, huge dribbling pups on my DC buggy, another trying to wee on it , and the owner chuckling as the large beast runs into a family picnic..... my dog is taken up to the woods during the summer as he would be in the picnic too but I know that.. take responsibility for your dogs!

No, YANBU. My dog is a rehome, clearly has issues with other dogs so I always keeps him on a short lead. It really annoys me when other dogs come over to him to "play", my dog goes crazy (doesntdo anything to harm, just barks and barks) then the other owner will go..".Oh its alright, my dogs friendly, loves other dogs" .....well, thats great love, but my dog doesnt