the eu-usa culture difference surrounding money and enjoyment is being overlooked

[cocacolamonster]

I was going around Reddit and it occurred to me that too many people are generalising/overlooking some of the strong culture differences that exist between US philosophy and non-US philosophy.

In Europe, we often go to great lengths to limit work hours even if that reduces productivity and looks statistically bad (reducing GDP) and much of society is based around enjoyment of life without money.

You raise children not to prepare them for a job, but rather either for enjoyment of life or to do some sort of moral good (become a doctor or politician).

A lot of Americans are still quite materialistic from a European perspective - universities are about making money there, a job's salary is most paramount, etc...

I'm Indian (or Sri Lankan) too. They don't have such a strong materialistic culture there as well. It is widely common for people to not peruse money in order to work towards a moral or cultural good - which many economists blame for the worse economic growth among Indians vis-a-vis more materialistic cultures such as China where money creation is views as a major aspect of success. Indian philosophies historically found that chasing money wouldn't lead to a better quality of life.

I'm not quite sure how most British people feel about paper chasing now considering the prevalence of US culture in the English speaking world.

@Xenia Are you sure that they are Indian? The "flash cars" thing sounds very chavvy to me. The weddings are just a massive aspect of Indian culture - as is gold jewellery - it's not a Chanel bag and is derived from religion. Indian materialism is heavily based on honour within your greater family, in that you want to prove to your FAMILY that you got into athe best university or the best job - being a butcher making millions doesn't cut it.

Indian philosophies originally found that aspiring to make money alone would cause humanity to regress, with the cultural caste system being a sort of solution to the problems caused by pure economic capitalism.

China is insanely materialistic- just ask other East Asians what they think about the Chinese. There's a strong shame associated with failing economically that simply does not exist in India. I think one of the problems India suffers from is the same problem that Southern Europe suffers from - low productivity driven by a cultural desire to focus on quality-of-life.

@youcant - accomodation and fees are paid for - but most kids only qualify for either / or so have to work while maintaining a perfect score. Even when both are paid expenses often aren’t; so the kids still have to work.

The academic requirements for keeping scholarship aid at most US universities are actually quite modest, usually around a "B" average.

DuchyDuke what utter bullshit.

Perhaps an occasional rich person gives $1,000,000 and a fancy university makes a place for their child, like Prince William getting into St Andrews. I can't say for sure it never happens. It would be incredibly rare, and the donation would be enormous (allegedly Jared Kushner's criminal of a father gave Harvard $1,000,000 to get him in).

You can't just buy your way into Stamford.

Maybe sometimes poor kids struggle at University because of the cognitive dissonance, but far less than they probably would struggle at Cambridge, with dinner jackets and gowns.

57% of Yale students get financial aid, 97% graduate. 70% of Harvard students get financial aid, and 98% graduate.

16% of Stanford students are the first in their family to go to University. It is hard to find the equivalent Oxbridge numbers, but in 2007-8 it was 11.5% for Oxford.

DuchyDuke My son just graduated from one of these schools, and it makes me cross to see such lies bandied about.
There is plenty wrong with the US system, but what you are saying about funding and about people dropping out is not true.

accomodation and fees are paid for - but most kids only qualify for either / or so have to work while maintaining a perfect score. Even when both are paid expenses often aren’t; so the kids still have to work

At Stanford you have to complete 60% of the courses you started and maintain a 3.0 to maintain your financial aid. Really not 'perfect' grades especially considering a student at Stanford has been maintaining 4.0+ at high school with an overload of higher-level courses.

As I said earlier, kids from families on under $65k will get a free ride including fees, accommodation and food. DD will not get this and will definitely have to work to pay for some of her living expenses - so by your argument she's more likely to drop out than a kid on a lower income.

Oh it's you again, OP. Below is a gem of a comment from OP's other thread comparing Muslims unfavourably to Hindus

As an example, a disabled person in the Hindu community can be given material support by their parents or family, whereas a Muslim person would have nowhere to turn to but Labour.

@Lacucuracha Which part of that comment do you actually disagree with? A lot of the cries for Islamophobia are being driven by socioeconomic conditions for which the Muslims are at fault.

It's stupid to support Labour in a situation where you lived under New Labour and Thatcher, worked your way up into a good middle class job, to then have it all taxed by Corbyn.

It's fairly simple for the odd balls to be supported by their family within the community as in India or most of the youth in the West.

OP - I’m reading a very interesting (and incredibly well-written) book on the effects of global capital on India, specifically Delhi, which you might find interesting. A lot of it is about how individuals’ lifestyles have changed (using specific examples) and there is some reflection on the differences between American and Indian experiences of capitalism. It’s called “Capital” and is by Rana Dasgupta.

@Lacucuracha Which part of that comment do you actually disagree with? A lot of the cries for Islamophobia are being driven by socioeconomic conditions for which the Muslims are at fault.

I've already explained in the other thread. It's racist to say that Muslims don't help their disabled family members but that Hindus do. That's a gross generalisation and untrue.

@TerfyMcTerface

India is a diverse place and its English language media suffers from a New Delhi centrism. A lot of the consumerism and materialism is concentrated in New Delhi and Mumbai.

North India is usually also stereotyped as being more westernised than South India, so concurrently it is probably also more materialistic than South India.

A lot of the diversity in India in terms of social protection is about the same as Europe - often cultural values in one part of the country aren't reflected in another part.

As for Indians/Sri Lankans not being materialistic, you MUST be kidding!

I must admit, as someone with very close connections to Indian culture, I was surprised to read this. I think conspicuous consumption is a huge thing in Indian culture, so it's hard to argue that it isn't a very materialistic society. However, I'm more familiar with the north than the south, and appreciate that the two are very different.

I think your right op. But I think the US is backward in many many ways.

North India is usually also stereotyped as being more westernised than South India, so concurrently it is probably also more materialistic than South India

The north might well be more materialistic than the south, but I'm not convinced that that's because it's more westernized. I think the materialism is probably an inherent part of north Indian culture.

@Brokenbiscuit

South India has historically kept a lot of its "Indian" culture - maybe a phenomenon limited to rural villages in the North.

I have plenty of North Indian friends and I don't view it as a North-South divide. There's a reason why politicians aren't allowed to show off wealth - due to Hindu values on simple living.

It is an interesting topic. I used to work with very wealthy people. The most charitable were Americans and Jewish by a long way. A lot of very wealthy Americans I dealt with had the mind set that they should give away 50% of their income (that did include tax) and often were pretty anonymous about it.

I found my Russian clients the flashiest and the least charitable - maybe I was unlucky and there are philanthropic ones but they only ever donated money if there was a cost benefit for them such as a strong probability of getting to meet a Royal/a lot of publicity etc.

Europeans in the middle - they tended to be pretty low key, keen on a quiet life, very focused on getting their children a good education (rather than "the best schools") but less charitable.

Interestingly the most charitable of all my clients was Chinese...

I guess we'll have to agree to differ, there, OP, because I have spent a lot of time in the rural villages of the north, and I think the conspicuous consumption is every bit as prevalent in the villages as it is in the cities. Sure, they don't have as much stuff, but the general attitudes are the same.

I know very little about South India, I'm afraid. Would love to visit though, I hear it's beautiful.

Since moving to the USA from the UK, our quality of life has improved drastically. So has the work life balance. It’s far, far better than the UK.

OP, you come across as very pious and holier than thou.

Oh aren't we Indians wonderful.. especially the south Indians and Hindi culture etc.

Oh and I say this as a fellow Indian who is very nicely materialistic thank you

*Hindu

@londonmummy1966 Europe almost universally has a class system so often Europeans don't tend to chase money so keenly in the same way Americans and Chinese do.

Europeans don't tend to like showing off, If you look at how European fashion houses cater for clientelle, Europeans tend to care more about design/beauty, whereas Chinese tend to be more brandy.

Americans are somewhere in the middle. It's possible that a doctor gets a lot of respect, but it's nowhere near the class system found in the UK and the rest of Europe.

I’m British and have lived in the USA for several years now, my experience does not tally with much of has been stated in this thread:

My DH works shorter hours here than he did in the U.K.

Every family we know has a big focus on sports and I don’t mean supporting or watching I mean active participation in multiple sports by all members of the family.

In addition to sports there are high levels of participation in music, the arts, hunting, camping and other hobbies.

Most of the families we know dedicate substantial amounts of time to volunteering and charity work.

The culture around charitable giving is entirely different here. People give hugedonations to their kids (state) schools, charities and religious organisations.

Not everywhere in the USA is like New York or like a TV programme.

People where I live absolutely do not spend their entire lives at work.

I live in a very prosperous area but I have never heard anyone here showing off about their new car, handbag or designer shoes. In my experience people are rather less materialistic here than where I live in the U.K.

People focus on education and want their children to do well but what’s wrong with that? I’m British and so do I.

The desire to secure a job with a good salary as far as I can see is less about materialism and more about being able to secure good health insurance and a pension. There’s far less of a safety net here.

Coca have you ever actually lived in the USA? If so where and for how long?

@Copperbonnet I've never lived in the US but I've basically lived everywhere else around the world.

I find that Americans tend to be more obsessed/focused on the idea that life is a capitalist world where everyone needs to fight for themselves in order for them to survive, whereas Europeans tend to be more community orientated and focused on helping each other more.

A perfect example might be attitudes towards immigration. It's not a priority for Indians in the UK because it's going to have a negative impact brain drain on India, but for Americans it's a racial issue.

OP, I think you're making a lot of generalisations on this thread. I'm not sure that they're helpful.