To be shocked that this is happening in Britain in 2018?

[Spending2muchtimeonMN]

Masked men try to prevent women from attending a lawful, public meeting to discuss the impact of proposed changes to the law on women's rights:

www.facebook.com/julie.bindel/videos/pcb.10160135970780316/10160135907955316

yes summerinthecountry, I can't say how strongly I think that transsexuals need to distance themselves from this. It has the potential to go very badly for them indeed.

Because Tarquin can just put his trousers back on. But for people where this is not just a lifestyle choice, where it's the means to preserve their mental health, they cannot step away. And do you want to be tarred with this brush?

*AIBU for having no clue about what is going on? Who are the people preventing entry? Who are the people trying to enter? What is the meeting about? And why are they trying to prevent entry? What is "sisters uncut"?

I feel like an alien dropped on a strange planet where everyone expects me to know cultural stuff I have no clue about*

I've got to be very honest now and say that I only have a basic understanding of the issues around transgender. But I've suggested on a couple of threads from the Feminism board that these things are (even if only occasionally) debated on boards with a lot of general traffic because I feel that many of us are happily unaware of this issue and I think it will come back to bite us. Seeing anyone prevented from having a debate or discussion on this way is worrying - imagine if this was Britain First preventing a group of Muslims going up the stairs - or reverse it, doesn't matter which "side" you take - there would be a riot and no doubt a lot of violence. And maybe mainstream press coverage.

I'm also a bit concerned to hear that someone called Emma has no sense of humour and publishes people's IP addresses on twitter - so my life of Brian analogy will be wasted then.

Sorry - bold fail - I was quoting from AngryAttackKittens on page 10

Thank you for putting in the link Suited that explains the issues so well (even if some of us are a bit sketchy on the meeting thing).

And having read that, I think I was right to say this is scary shit and we ignore it, or choose to remain ignorant of it, at our peril.

staples

In a nutshell:

The transgender groups are pushing to have all female spaces available to them despite the fact they are biologically and in every other way still a man. He does not need to be dressed as a woman, he can be stood there entirely as a man with a beard and all the rest, all he needs to say is that he 'identifies' as a man to have access to these areas.

This demand covers every single area of women's space from changing rooms to lavatories to swimming pools and maternity and beyond.

I do not need to point out the dangers to girls and women by having men walking into these areas, some of which put women in a very vulnerable position. Access to young girls and children in many spaces.

This is all being done without consulting women or the public.

Transgender men are are also deciding that we are no longer 'women', we are to be called 'cis' thus deciding that our very biology is not ours any longer.

They feel it is their right to change anything at all to suit them and are shutting down all attempts at debate and discussion....

To think people brexit is the main issue in this country, there is a battle happening just for women to hold on to the rights they already have (and have had for decades) much less a consideration of further rights.

identifies as a woman (obviously)

The slapping the camera thing, if someone had a camera on me (loathe being on camera/photos etc) and they didn't remove it Wen asked I would absolutely slap it away.

If someone is preventing me getting to where I want to go, and I've been hemmed in behind as well, I'd be filming them.

I think we should claim that male expression 'cockblocking' for this kind of activity. It's cocks blocking women.

But why summer - why is thing being done, bearing in mind all the other things HGM Gov has to deal with at the moment - why is this being put through now?

reluctant

Yes it is a shame for the transgender that are peaceful and respectful and considerate of other women, they are fast losing their support which seems unfair.

The only way they can stop the rot is to speak up (as loudly) and understand that this issue must have a solution that suits both sides. That women can not be rebranded at will, and true sisterhood is about respect.

Toilets have women, men and unisex for instance, same with changing rooms and other areas. Unisex swimming options etc.

It can not be that one half of the population lose their rights and protection to facilitate such a small segment of society.

I love the phrase cockblocking - you v. clever Juells - there should be some sort of recognition for MNetters who invent these descriptions; like wankbadger, that's a great one isn't it - I mean thats not even a gender specific term so we can use it for ALL the wankbadgers.

staples

because transgender is or should I say was a fashionable bandwagon. Everyone was jumping on it, even the ex PM.

So the bandwagon became emboldened to push for more and more (and why the hell not when everyone is being so nice) so they are by stealth stripping away our rights. We have the audacity to notice and to start resisting the changes and now you can see the outcome.

The government didn't think it through, and there are some very powerful players in the background.

@summerinthecountry - I wasn't there sadly! I was quoting a woman who had posted on Julie Bindel's fb page.

I agree with you though - I think they should press charges and that they are all extremely brave.

I'm also worried that something really serious will happen before the authorities intervene :(

juells

love the cockblocking description it is JUST what it is!

Yes it is a shame for the transgender that are peaceful and respectful and considerate of other women, they are fast losing their support which seems unfair

We aren't nouns.

yetanothertranswoman and you arent losing our support either. We arent stupid, we can see the agenda, and we wont let that happen.

orchid

Apologies I re read it and can see you quoting now, yes you are absolutely right.
If one of those women had been pushed/fallen down the stairs the consequences would have been very serious. GBH/Manslaughter and they knew this was making the situation more dangerous by lining the stairs willy waving and yet were still prepared to do so.

The police need to identify them and charge them with harassment and by doing so sending a message to ALL groups that this is unacceptable behaviour.

As pp said, this would never have happened at a black lives matter meeting!

summer - that's what my DH said (he's not usually so insightful!)

Horrific. Can't believe Magdalen had to raise her voice.

upstart

There will be a loss of support from the public, no one wants to see nice middle aged ladies being harassed by masked men.

@grandplans

"we see you"

Occasionally I wonder what this means, then I give my head a wobble and remember it means zilch.

@TheElementsSong

"I wonder how many lurkers are reading Sentmai’s posts and thinking “gosh, that is so wise, I must reform my erroneous thinking”"

I don't think there's a single person. I don't think there's a hope in hell for 99% of TERFs to ever reconsider their anti-trans stance. Some might call that ignorant ...

@Beachcomber

"Sentmai why are you defending and minimizing male intimidation of women gathering to peacefully discuss women's rights?"

I haven't defended the protesters' intimidation (I see you're sticking with the 'male' theme).

I haven't minimised what's happened. I simply pointed out that maximising (violent assault, terrorism etc) made the people who said so look foolish.

"Why are you minimizing data breaches?"

I haven't done that either. I suggested that if one group values their anonymity so highly, they look pretty foolish chastising another group for valuing theirs.

@merrymouse

"Isn't it worrying that instead of contributing to the conversation, or exercising their right to protest peacefully, they tried to stop the event taking place?"

As I said earlier, I'm not sure. There are some meetings where I wholeheartedly applaud non-violent disruption (and whilst this could have been intimidating, it wasn't violent terrorism. I tend to err on the side of 'let the extremists and exclusionary radicals show their true colours' so on balance, I think TERFs should meet in their small groups and applaud each other.

"Obviously you don't have to comment on any thread, but take away all the discussion of violence, and you are still left with an organisation that is actively trying to stop freedom of speech. Isn't that worrying?"

Not especially. Try being a moderate on the feminism boards. I lurk and wince and newbies who don't toe the party line get yelled at until they fuck off. Look at what's happened to me and a couple of other posters on this thread who aren't 100% in opposition or perhaps take a more pragmatic or balanced view of events. Sarcasm, snide comments and a minority of sensible posters who can read and is happy to ask pertinent questions when someone disagrees with them.

"a feminist academic talking about gender is controversial in 2018?"

Radical and exclusive (her own self-declared stance) is of course controversial. Innate gender (which I see as the basis for this entire sorry saga) is rightfully controversial.

@Elendon

"If my partner blocked my entrance to a room I would ... see that action as violent."

Yes, but you'd be wrong.

@ParisUSM

That's not the only university to not allow this woman to come. I think Milo something had the same issue.

I'm torn. I think that students should be smart enough to make up their own minds about controversial issues but that doesn't mean that every extreme view deserves a platform.

I'm glad it isn't my responsibility to balance free speech and general sensibilities.

I don't think there's a hope in hell for 99% of TERFs to ever reconsider their anti-trans stance.

How interesting that I was wondering about lurkers and you're going on about TERFS but anyway I applaud your sterling efforts.

"A balanced view of events"?

A group of men wore masks and blocked the staircase to a venue to prevent women meeting and talking.

Those are the facts. There is no balance.

I suggested that if one group values their anonymity so highly

One of the posters whose IP address was put on the internet is not a terf or 'anti trans'

She is being quoted now as transphobic when she is not

Thank goodness she is anonymous

I am very annoyed on her behalf...i bet she is taking it all in her stride

sentmai

Just to assist you with the definition, I think we all agree it was violent intimidation. Intended to hurt, damage because there was contact it can be considered violence because the intention was to harm.

Notice particularly strong arm tactics.

violence
ˈvʌɪəl(ə)ns/Submit
noun
1.
behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
"violence erupted in protest marches"
synonyms: brutality, brute force, roughness, ferocity, fierceness, savagery, cruelty, sadism, barbarity, barbarousness, brutishness, murderousness, bloodthirstiness, ruthlessness, inhumanity, heartlessness, pitilessness, mercilessness; strong-arm tactics; rareferity
"there had been widespread fears of police violence"
forcefulness, force, full force, power, powerfulness, strength, might, savagery, ferocity, brutality, destructiveness
"the violence of the blow"
2.
strength of emotion or of a destructive natural force.
"the violence of her own feelings"
synonyms: intensity, severity, strength, force, great force, vehemence, powerfulness, power, potency, ferocity, forcefulness, wildness, frenziedness, fury, storminess, tempestuousness, turbulence; lack of control, lack of restraint, passionateness; rarefervency, ardency
"the violence of his passion"