AIBU to wonder why everyone has cleaners these days!

[Storm4star]

Ok, please don’t take offence, I say this somewhat in jest. But my goodness how many of you have cleaners?? I have been utterly ripping the pee out of a male colleague at work because he and his wife have a cleaner but I hadn’t realised how common it’s become until I joined MN!

I personally struggle to justify spending my hard earned cash on things I could do myself (also do most of my own decorating and DIY). But have I missed something? Is a cleaner now the new must have?

Surely it's obvious re the long hours - if you don't have much spare time, then you value that time higher than someone who has lots. If you only have 2 days a week to do fun things, giving up half a day of that for dull stuff seems a bigger hardship than someone who has 3/4 days a week away from paid work. (Or indeed 7!)

I'm a SAHM with school aged dcs, I could afford a cleaner, but don't feel the need for one as I can easily clean the house myself while they are at school, and I see the dcs so much that if they are watching the tv for an hour while I get on with some domestic dullness, it doesn't really feel like a hardship.

When I worked between dc1 and 2, my non-work time with dc1 felt more precious. So we had a cleaner then so my nonwork days could be spend doing fun stuff like trips to the park, not hoovering the stairs or scrubbing the shower door which hasn't been properly clean since we stopped having a cleaner, I use the same products, I clean it twice a week, how did she get the bastard thing clean when I can't?!

It would be a big effort to get the house 'cleaner-ready' nowadays.

As a messy person, the stress of ensuring the house was 'cleaner-ready' for a certain day each week would outweigh any benefits of a cleaner coming in. Plus, once the house is cleaner ready the actual cleaning bit of it is straightforward and takes no time at all.

I need a tidy mess-er but unfortunately that's not easily outsourced as only I know where things go!

I suppose it depends what you mean by decent annual income stopfuckingshouting. House cleaning seems more conducive to part time work fitting around things than it does to a full time job, so I can see how a person whose needs to maximise the total they can earn whilst also being low skilled probably wouldn't be able to choose it. In terms of renumeration per hour though, it's a lot better than the other similarly unskilled options. As a part timer whose income would put me as a pretty low earner but who doesn't do a lot of hours for it, I'm always wary of using annual earnings as much of a barometer, because I feel pretty privileged. Though I don't get sick pay or a cushy pension plan either, so maybe I shouldn't.

There is a good point to be made there about how people needing flexibility pay for that either in terms of wage or hours worked tending to stay low, though. I mentioned my school gate pal who does it because it's the one job she can do that allows her to work within school hours. She gets paid quite a bit more per hour than in her previous job, but she might well be able to earn more if she were able to work all the hours her DC isn't at school, iyswim- lower hourly rate but more hours available to work.

All this hand wringing about cleaners not being paid super etc... My cleaner is a self-employed contractor, not my employee - i.e. She is running her own business. I pay her the equivalent of £15 p/h (not UK). She doesn't get leave but takes time away whenever she wants - e.g. will give a week's notice if she'd heading off on holiday or whatever. Last week we had a power cut so she couldn't come but I paid her 50% of what she would have earned as I wanted to minute the impact on her earnings due to circumstances beyond her control.

That's how businesses work - you provide a service, ideally one that's so good you can charge a premium/pick & choose your clients/hours. She's a good cleaner so I want to make sure she continues to choose us as clients. If anything she has more power in the bargain than I do!

stormy - sorry to hear that. Sounds like you could benefit from some help - will your DH not reconsider?

Most people spend more on a quiet night in a pub or bar between them than we spend on a weekly cleaner.
For us, it’s money well spent. We can now afford to do it without sacrificing anything else, but we prioritised it in the past when things were tighter too. Neither of us enjoy cleaning, neither of us are good at it, we both worked hard and I have a disabled child who requires a lot of care.
I think more people (who can afford it) should consider it. I’ve had a number of friends say “Oh I’d love a cleaner but I’d feel so guilty!”. Some people feel they’re being lazy if they don’t do all the cleaning of their house, others feel it’s exploitative. The latter annoys me. Cleaning is a job and takes skill and knowledge to be done well. Unless you are underpaying, you are not exploiting your cleaner any more than you are exploiting your plumber.
I love having a cleaner. We still have to do housework of course, but I don’t miss spending Saturday mornings cleaning through the bloody house.

I have to admit I would love a cleaner but we can't afford it. I'm probably the kind of person who although our house is in need of a deep clean (working veg farm with 2 hurricane kids) I'd probably then feel the need to clean for the cleaner coming

If cleaners were paid such that they had a decent annual income , paid their NI contributions and had 4 weeks holidays and sick pay

But cleaners are self-employed, on the whole. Just like other self-employed people, they know that their income is not guaranteed, you cover your own NI, do a tax return, don't get sick pay or holiday pay. On the other hand you have a lot more flexibility when it comes to choosing to work or choosing not to work - if my cleaner texts and says she can't come on Tuesday because of x, y or z, that's her right to do so. I am also within my rights to say I don't need her one week, and don't have to pay her. She is an able, capable woman but has other things going on in her life which means that she hugely values the flexibility of self-employment and it suits her. She wouldn't want a full time job where she could only have a set number of holidays and couldn't take her son on the holidays.

Just as I would with the window cleaner of hairdresser. They are providing a service and setting a rate for that service, and as the client, I can choose whether to use it or not.

As with previous posters we both work full time, hate cleaning and are no good at it. I want to spend my weekends with my family not stuck in the house mopping floors etc. Getting a cleaner really improved my quality of life. I think even if I experienced a wage reduction I would make cuts elsewhere before I lost her as just those 2hrs a week make such a difference.
As for the comments re NI,, holidays,, sick pay. My cleaner is self employed, she is not my employee. I am her client and she is providing a service. I'm self employed myself. NI, holidays, sick pay etc are something I have to arrange for myself/factor in to daily rates, the same goes for my cleaner

@coconuttella

Being called pretentious (if I felt it were untrue), wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I have the hide of a rhino.

We call her a helper or nanny. Most of her job is cleaning but it definitely seems to undersell her capabilities.

Hand wringing ? I am just stating sOmething

It really riles me that a comment (and it happens all the time here) relating to a perceived inequality is called ‘hand wringing’ .

Fuck that annoyed me !

Yes it’s self employed and part time and can work well for women with other responsibilities - agreed

But there is reason why cleaners are so affordable compared to gardeners /plumbers / decorators - and it begins with a T

Cleaning doesn't require the same skills as the other jobs you've mentioned!

How can a cleaner charge the same rate as a plumber? A plumber is skilled and has had training for a specialist job.

I could become a cleaner tomorrow if I wanted to!

I think most people have a cleaner as they are time poor (regardless of whether they have a stressful job) and don’t want to spend what little free time they have cleaning. I’d rather spend my evenings and weekends with family and friends instead of cleaning the bathrooms and changing the beds. It’s down to a choice as to how you spend available money in the same way as I buy my lunch from the local sandwich shop rather than make my own. There is no right or wrong way, just personal choice.

@Storm4star curious who does the cleaning in your gaffe?
Because though I'm not averse to keeping things tidy, wiping surfaces and hoovering I began to resent working full time and then spending a whole day every other weekend doing a deep clean of bathrooms and floors as my DH didn't notice as much as me and then I'd be angry and resentful of anyone (dh and DCs ) who came home and messed shit up immediately . It caused a lot of tension. Outsourcing shit jobs no one actually enjoys or wants to do if u can afford it makes sense. Even when i had it once a month and just maintained in between
So why are u so judgy of your friend ? Are u a better human for cleaning your loo on a Saturday?

For us it is only the cost of a family takeaway a week and is a lot less than a divorce. Plus it ensures we keep the house tidy (at least the night before her visit) so we would need to be in real dire straits financially before considering doing it ourselves.

It's often a question of prioritisation, in my opinion.

Where I grew up, very few people had cleaners. My DM still has this view that it's demeaning to have one and is uncomfortable with the idea of paying someone else to clean up her dirt/mess. I think that's daft (as long as it's normal day-to-day grime rather than pisstaking) - and see it as just another task that people may or may not choose to outsource.

My DPs are the kind to do everything home-related themselves bar gas/electrics/plumbing, whereas I think our generation would be more willing to outsource and potentially have more money and less time.

I know lots of people with cleaners. For us, we could probably just about afford it but would have to cut back on other things to justify it. It's not important enough to me to do that and we have our own system which keeps the place "clean enough". But I wouldn't judge others who made different choices.

I never fail to be shocked at how badly the hard of thinking struggle to grasp very simple concepts. We pay our cleaner £10 per hour. She does a thorough job but doesn't need any training or qualifications to clean our home. We recently paid a plumber roughly £30 per hour because he was doing a skilled job that had required him to do years of training and qualifications. Our cleaner is self employed. We don't pay sick pay or holiday pay in the same way I don't pay my hair stylist or beauty therapist sick pay or holiday pay. Because they are self employed.

It really is very straightforward.

I used have a cleaner /ironer (oh, bliss) pre-kids when we both worked stupid hours and I cared if the house was a tip.

We still both work silly hours but have realises that I don't care as much!

The only folks I know now with cleaners are people who dont work.

Because we both work 6 days per week, and we don't want to send our precious hours, not at work, cleaning the house!
We prefer to spend that time doing things we enjoy as a family and not having to worry about the state of the house etc, however it is very much each to their own.

@unintentionalthreadkiller my partner sweats profusely in bed even with Windows open etc so I need to change it or I can't sleep.

My dogs need the toilet and exercise so I get up for them. We stay in a rainy part of the country so they always come in with mucky paws hence washing the floors several times a day.
Partner is an apprentice joiner and works on building sites so always have a lot of washing. Plus being pregnant has increased my sense of smell so I need to wash the dog beds every 1-2 days or it makes me sick.
Lol I know it sounds a lot but I love my dogs and would give them up for nothing.

I've also had time of work (I'm agency staff and only get statutory sick pay with is less than 1/4 of my normal pay) so won't be affording a cleaner any time soon

@SundayGirls that used to bug me too as I was a perfectionist when I did it myself
It does take time to find a good one!

My mum still has the same cleaner she had when we lived at home (20years?) Mum knows she pays a lot for what is required now but doesn't want to lose her and is worth it

For what it's worth there was also no way I was ironing DH business shirts (don't mind doing a shirt if we're going out or whatever) so I take a whole month worth to dry cleaner who cleans and irons the lot for $1 per shirt which is less than my time is worth

I have a cleaner for 2 hours per week, which in a family of 5 helps out, but is no where near all of the cleaning.
None of my colleagues know I have a cleaner and only 1 of my friends knows and that is deliberate, because I would never hear the end of it and there would be discussion about it behind my back. So, if you think you don't know anyone that has a cleaner, you are probably wrong! I also worked as a self-employed cleaner between dcs 2 & 3, so it is not a too posh to clean scenario.

@Storm4star Clearly i’m in the 1% minority that doesn’t have a problem with cleaning my own house. I just wish people wouldn’t take it as an attack. well tbh your posts come across as pretty judgy! Everyone replying is either saying they hate cleaning or they don't feel they have time (assuming most of us are women it's also mad that we all feel it's our responsibility!)
There's also a few saying they can't afford right now but have and would again. But If you love to clean so much and are happy to spend your time doing it then good for you! I actually don't mind cleaning I find it therapeutic but also have to be in the right mood and resented "having" to do it on a weekend while family had leisure time because the house was a shithole (and dh would not clean I'm afraid nor would he notice the bath scum or yellow toilets so it was down to me!). You say you and work friend are cool but he prob does think you're being a bit of a dick to make such a big deal of it. I can't imagine having any response to a friend or colleague saying they got a cleaner other than "oh cool good for you" . But u have ripped the shit out of him and also posted here so obviously to you this is a BIG DEAL. So weird

Banana if your friends would gossip behind your back about you having a cleaner then you need much better friends.

I don't know anyone with a cleaner. My office doesn't even have one any more so even in work we all have to vacuum/mop floors/clean the toilet etc.

TBH mumsnet doesn't make having a cleaner sound attractive, given that everyone seems to clean and tidy up before the cleaner comes round.