To think passport control need a re-think

[SchoolGateBeta]

Over how they treat and speak to unmarried mothers going through passport control with their kids with the father's surname - without the dad. Can they not put both parent's full names on the child's passport?

I have a certain amount of unresolved issues over my name not being given to child and also to not being ever asked to marry. And to be lectured and questioned at passport control adds oil to that particular water, there was no respect given and it seemed acceptable to presume I'm people trafficing and I just had to take how they spoke to me as I thought they could detain me if I say 'please don't lecture me'. Ok I know now have to carry birth certificate when I travel to prove I'm not smuggling children which seems a risk of losing further important documents and upsets me that some common sense, a solution or more tact could be saught.

It's not only parents with different surnames who are stopped. They deal with loads of mothers whose children don't have the same surname as them given that in so many places and cultures women don't change their name.

I've been stopped just as often with my youngest three who I share a name with as I have been alone with my elder two who don't. It's not just about names.

Also taking his friend on holiday with us so I need a letter. What type of letter? I'll sort one but if feels pointless as I could easily have forged it....

When my girls were taken on holiday by their paternal grandparents it was recommended that my letter had my passport number on it as that would be harder for someone not supposed to be taking them to take them.

I’m sorry you were upset by this OP and I understand that your circumstances might make this a touchy subject but it is honestly fairly standard stuff.

Passport control officers have a pretty stressful and responsible role and they aren’t generally known for their chatty friendly manner.

And yes, you do often just have to bite your tongue and be polite.

I’m married to my children’s father. We are British but live in the US.

Whenever I travel alone with my children the U.K. or return to the US I make sure I have a copy of their birth certificates and a signed letter from their father giving me permission to travel with them.

If he ever had to travel with the kids without me we’d do the same thing.

I have been all over Europe and to America several times alone with my DD. We don't have the same surname and I have never taken a birth certificate or latter from her dad and I have never had any hassle or anything.

On one occasion dd was asked who I was and she said my mum and that was it. Never experienced any issues.

Always get hassled returning to the UK. Never get any issues leaving or entering Germany! The funny part is when we go up North - they do tend to be more laid back than Stansted but the staff question DS at full speed in full on accents and he can't understand them because he's not used to hearing any British accents at all.

I made the "fucking stupid decision" ( helpful!) to give him XP's name because I was in an emotionally abusive relationship, XP would have accused me of cheating or plotting to leave or all sorts if I'd given him my name and potentially become violent, which I did not want to deal with at 10 days post birth. And I wasn't exactly in the most hard nosed frame of mind either - you know, most people tend to be optimistic about their relationship when they've just had a baby!

Anyway. I now don't have contact with my ex. So no I don't have a letter of permission to bring him, because there is no way in hell he would sign one. But considering DS wouldn't even recognise him in the street I very much resent that it ought to carry any weight.

Secondly, I've changed my name. So you are welcome to look at his birth certificate, but all that will tell you is that I share a first and middle name with his mother. So I bring out the marriage certificate as well. At which point the border agents start to look weary. If they ask about the letter of permission, then I have to explain, in front of my child who is no doubt utterly thrilled to hear this every time, that his father abandoned him and hasn't bothered with any contact since the summer of 2011. And I don't know where he is and I'm not really very fussed about finding out.

What is actually frustrating is that if we ever succeed in getting a court order DS will change to mine and DH's name, as he wishes, and we will probably never be asked another question, despite the fact that DH is not and will probably never be his legal father!

This summer's trip will be fun since I'll be carrying all of that paperwork, plus a note from his school giving him official leave of absence so that we don't get a fine for truancy, plus a note from my doctor declaring me fit to fly in the third trimester of pregnancy! I can't wait to see their faces when I pull out my sheaf

YANBU - perhaps a mumsnet campaign?

When I got married I kept my name then eventually (for various reasons) added DH’s surname on to mine. DC has DH’s surname. Surely it should be possible to see that I have added a matching last name on to my name to match DH and DC? It shouldn’t be this difficult to have both parent’s last names on a passport. End of.

Coming back from a group holiday a few years ago, I was the only adult accompanying 7 teenagers.

They went through ahead of me, the 16 year olds were not even asked who they were with, three of the 14 year olds were waved on through after pointing at me in the queue and MY OWN SON the only one asked was interrogated as to what his relationship was to me.

Coincidentally, he was the only mixed race person amongst us.

Following year, same sort of group, but his passport was new, so we got separated in the face recognition booths, and guess what, he was stopped and questioned again. Luckily this time the other adult was able to verify that he was indeed pointing at his mother, standing pale and oblivious on the other side of passport control.

Yanbu, i go to Britain a fair bit with my kids for weekends from Ireland. I kept my name when i get married.
Coming back into Dublin airport i now have been told by one official when i travel i have to carry my marriage certificate and now i have been told to carry copies of kids birth certificates also, it's annoying.

I don't think for most people it's the issue of a check, per se, it's more that there is no clear requirement, and also a child's passport is virtually rendered meaningless. They could just go back to having the child in the parent's passport if they are allowed to take them abroad - even if they still have their own passport too. Or put parents in the child's passport, or put an insert in the passport like you do when you move abroad with the forces, literally any common sense measure. When you have to give the passport office all of this information in the first place it seems ludicrous that children have to have multiple pieces of documentation to go anywhere!

Never had a problem at all - nor has my mum (she has a different name to me, my partner and our children), who has travelled in and out of the country with my children and not with me. She’s always had a letter - it’s never been a problem at all. Never even been asked.

Yup! I changed my name only for this reason. DC is mixed race and different name would have been too unfathomable for them I'm sure.

DH brothers wife (also mixed family) has been asked whilst they were all together (husband,wife and 4 kids) "and what relation are you to these ppl?" They even share the same name!

My DD has the same name as me and DH. She was asked questions at the port about who we were and where she had been when she was about 7. All 3 of us were together.

She was confused but if this sort of thing can save even one child being stolen then so be it.

just keep a copy of the birth certificate in the child's passport.
makes travelling with dc on your own (different name or not doesn't matter) so much easier.

Only ever heard of this on MN. I've travelled god knows how many times with all or various of my children, none of them with my name, and no-one has ever even blinked at me.
There is no legal obligation to carry any paperwork other than the passport, and no legal reason why anyone can't travel with children with different names to them, related or otherwise.

But a birth certificate or a copy is just a piece of paper. It proves nothing. I'm sure if you wanted to traffic a child you could produce a very good fake or procure a real one.

The only way you can prove you are the parent of a child is by DNA testing. No amount of stern questioning at passport control is going to provide enough proof (and yes we only get it when re-entering the UK funnily enough!).

We need a better system! I second putting the parents' names on the child's passport - it would be a cheap, reasonable and effective way of dealing with this issue. So there is no chance the Home Office will implement it

It's not just single parents or grandparents, we flew back from holiday on Tuesday, everyone with a child with them was questioned, it took a good while. Our son was asked his name, age and if we were his parents, even though we all have the same name. Passports can be faked, so this is one way of verifying I suppose. We were fine with it, so we had to queue for 30 minutes, it's worth it if it reduces trafficking and modern slavery.

I recently was told off by passport control for not having a copy of DS2’s birth certificate with me. Thing is, we were returning to the UK (where we and his father live) not trying to leave. He asked DS2 if I was mum, and DS2 laughed and says yes. He thought it was a ridiculous question.

I hadn’t given the surname issue any thought beforehand because ex was with us when we flew out but he was coming back after us. I really didn’t think they’d be bothered about to us returning.

It would be simpler to put both parents’ names on children’s passports. They could do it in the observations bit. For some reason they felt it necessary to observe that ‘the passport holder is Dr Unimaginative Username’ on mine, which seems utterly trivial in comparison to parents’ names for minors.

It's to protect you and your child, carry the birth cert, or a copy of it. Border control have so much to do that you know nothing about, and which you shouldn't have to worry about, if someone else went through with your child I bet you wouldn't be happy then either, u don't realise how common trafficking/kidnapping/taking without permission from mum or dad goes on

Exactly this.

I've said this before in a similar thread, but I can promise you that they do not give a shit if you have fifteen DC, all with different fathers and different surnames. Get married and divorced more times than Elizabeth Taylor. They don't care. They are not making any moral judgments on your relationship or marital history. They aren't picking on you because of your gender or marital status. They don't have quotas. They have a million and one rules, regulations and policies to remember, covering every nationality in the world. Even if they had the inclination to judge you, they don't have the time. Some are polite and friendly, some are dickheads. Exactly the same as anywhere else, be it SAHPs, doctors, teachers, retail, etc. However, all they care about is doing the best they can to make sure that you aren't doing anything nefarious. If you think that someone has been rude to you, then complain. In writing afterwards if you don't feel up to it at the time. But, OP, in the kindest possible way, what you may have considered to be a lecture could well have been an attempt to explain to you what they were doing and why it would be easier for you to carry certain documents in the future. It's easy to feel as if you're being criticised if you feel sensitive about these issues anyway.

It's very easy to complain about having to carry these documents and ask why parent's names don't appear in passports. And if the laws were in place to compel parents to follow an exact procedure, or passports contained that info, then Border Force Officers would probably be over the moon because it would make their jobs much easier. But both of these things are things which Border Force have no control over. They don't make laws and they don't issue passports or get a say in what information goes in them. Lobby your MPs.

UKHTC has many case studies of what happens to children who slip through the net and there are many publicised cases of estranged spouses/partners whisking the children off to some country where their return can't be enforced. Surely it's better to take ten minutes answering questions than risk a child going through one minute of what some of them are forced to endure? Read the case studies on the UKHTC site and try to remember it's about them, not you.

Why should the government waste money on an ad campaign just because you are too lazy to check the website?!

Of course they focus on the fact you have different surnames. IF someone else was randomly flying out with your DD and got no questions asked I'm sure you'd be furious.

YANBU. We all have the same surname. Travelling back to uk last year, our daughter was called to the window before us and the officer asked her whether she knew us. She laughed and said we were her parents. Then they called us forward. I thought they were joking but they were deadly serious. In hindsight I’m glad they are really thorough.

Recently went on holiday with my dc and my best friend and her foster child who is of a different ethnicity. Best friend had all the relevant documents from SS granting her permission to take foster child abroad. Border control didn't bat an eyelid neither on our departure or return.

But both of these things are things which Border Force have no control over. They don't make laws and they don't issue passports or get a say in what information goes in them. Lobby your MPs.

I didn’t get annoyed at the passport control guy in Heathrow, even if he was even more surly than US immigration (which is impressive).

It is utterly stupid that the government haven’t implemented such a simple change as listing a child’s parents’ names in the observations section of their passport, especially if it would help make passport control more efficient and effective. A photocopy of a birth certificate is far easier to forge than a passport. A letter from the other parent is even easier.

The return to UK checks is also about ensuring that the child stood in front of them is not being trafficked into the country using a false document

They have a duty under Section 55 of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009 to make checks.
The inconvenience caused to us is minor in comparison to the amount of children that border control officers have saved from trafficking, prostitution etc by making safeguarding checks.

Freshstart
You carry a standard letter from his parents.

I think they’ve tightened up on this very recently. I have the same name and nationality as my daughter but was still asked very brusquely on arrival last month, “what is your relation to this child?” We fly every 8 weeks or so and it was a noticeably different approach.