To ask what/who the dole should be for?

[Lollipop30]

Just been having this discussion with my brothers and Dad and we obviously disagree totally! By dole I mean any government help excludind child benefit.
So I’m interested to know who you think it should be for and why?

But it should be made easier to work, childcare should be heavily subsidised such that it makes financial sense to work 40 hours in a minimum wage job than staying at home on the dole

Completely agree with this. I will be going back to work full time when DS is 12 months as it makes financial sense to... but if I had had twins or had another young child it wouldn't. And I earn £35k so not exactly a bad salary!

Tax credits top our wages up so we can afford to live. I have 2 jobs, both bosses judgmental about benefits, both pay MW and are multimillionaires

There should be an effective safety net for people who genuinely need it. Including but not limited to:

Those temporarily out of work, along with meaningful support to find new work
Those unable to work longer term due to illness (physical or mental.)
Those being sole carers for disabled children or adults in the family (saves the state loads)
Disabled people who may struggle to find work or require additional support/modifications to houses /mobility support.

There should be additional support for parents supporting /caring for children or adults with extra needs - again this saves the state money.

There should also be a move away from tax credits to sub the profits of companies who won’t pay a living wage and towards decent living wages for all
There should be increased worker protection and rights and zero hours contracts should go back to being the sort of niche contracts they were supposed to be for student workers etc.
There should be much improved access to preventative healthcare
There should be an end to right to buy and a move to build more social housing with all the profits being pumped back in, reducing drain out to private landlords.

That should sort most of it? NOBODY doing an honest job or who is genuinely unable to work, or raising children with additional needs that reduces their work capacity should be on the breadline. We are a rich country.

@FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast

Our electricity bill is £30 for the month. I’m not saying it’d be a comfortable life but everything would be paid. Our rent is under £600pm for a 3bed with garden and parking, I know in other places you’d be lucky to rent a shoebox for that! I definitely believe the amount should be altered on area as the current amount isn’t even pocket money in SE. My point was solely on whether JSA should be used as a steppingstone into employment or into a career. Obviously I think it should be used whilst someone looks for a job and then they do the career search from there, whereas my family believe JSA should pay to enable volunteering, internships, creative stuff so you can go into a career you want (as opposed to need).

@LittleMyLikesSnuffkin

Not a lot to understand or not?! I asked the question following a family discussion. I’m happy for people to tell their opinions and why, hopefully I’ll learn something new.

yes but you just said that in your area it would be 'easy' to live on £70 a week, did you not?

in no part of the country is this 'easy. The way you talk just makes you sound naive and pampered tbh.

Good for you that you have such a low electric bill. What about gas?

and rent is not the point.
The point is living on £70 a week, or less if you have to top up the HB (housing benefit).
You said it would be 'easy'. Could you expand on that at all?

@Lollipop I said earlier about watching I Daniel Blake, I suggest that you should actually watch it. It's set up north, maybe where you say people can manage on £70 a week? Have you heard about the sanctions they dish out? Leaving people with no money? Even on jsa a lot need to use food banks, girls have period poverty, houses remain damp because often the poorest in society have to buy their fuel using the most expensive method...

Nobody is living the high life on benefits, nobody. Even if you think people are do you know every move when they shut their doors? Mothers starving because they use what little money they have to feed their children.

I'm quite passionate about this and get very angry about people who judge those on benefits. It's a complex issue.

There are all different circumstances and it's not for anyone else to judge what other people are getting from the "dole".

Job seekers allowance is just that: an allowance you receive while you seek a job.

It’s to be taken literally as the sanctions for not trying hard enough to get a job, any job, are harsh.

Easy to understand surely?!

You’re the one who mentioned all government assistance apart from CB. So I and others took you at your word and assumed you included HB, WTC, CA, IS, CTC and all the others. Also, did I miss where you revealed what your opinion in this “family discussion was? I’m interested.

I've never claimed JSA although I've been on benefits for years. I've always thought of the dole as just being JSA. I've claimed income support, PIP, carers allowance, DLA, housing benefit, tax credits, and council tax support at different times, due to being a lone parent and/or carer, but I've never had to show evidence of jobseeking, because it's not a requirement for any of those benefits. I don't feel guilty for claiming anything - it's just something I expect as part of living in a civilised society that looks after the disabled and families in poverty. If my circumstances were different I'd have no problem in paying taxes to support people who needed benefits to survive.

Our benefits add up to significantly more than £70pw, as it costs more to live with a disability and to raise children, and I think that's fair enough. Also, it's not just a short term situation for us - the disabilities in our family are incurable, so we need more money than people who just need a stop gap to tide them over between jobs.

I think all benefits should be there for anyone who meets the criteria at the time. I know many people who have struggled to find work for years at a time, and if they need support for that long, then they should have it.

I know the press/media (channel 5..looking at you) love to highlight how people on JSA are scrounging/playing the system etc but the reality is the majority of people struggle on it, it's not a huge amount and the job centre will make you jump through hoops to get it (I was on it in 2010).

There may be a handful of people who have made the system work for them and are able but unwilling to work etc but this is a tiny minority, and the majority of people need their JSA to live and are doing their best.

‘It’s to be taken literally as the sanctions for not trying hard enough to get a job, any job, are harsh.’

That is how I think it should be taken that it should be those to bridge the gap whilst finding ANY job. However you have missed several times when I have said that my family believed it should be there for you to find a career, a very different thing to just a job.
The sanctions may be strict if you aren’t looking but if you’re applying (even if they’re things you’re vastly under qualified for) whilst pursuing career plans then you’re fine.

so about it being 'easy' to live on £70 a week lollipop? would you care to expand on that?

Iain Dunked In Shit reckoned he could do it.

It's ok. Sparse but do-able. Right up until one of the kids needs new clothes/shoes, the cooker/fridge breaks.

That's the really shit bit.

Anybody who is eligible. They are means tested to an extent currently and rightly so. Some people don’t earn enough to support themselves or their family and that truly is no fault of their own. We can all sit in our ivory towers and say “oh well they shouldn’t have had kids if they can’t support them” but procreation shouldn’t be reserved for the elite. We have absolutely no idea what their situation was when they had children either, a billion and one things can happen to change it.

The fact is, minimum wage isn’t a ‘living wage’ therefore people need tax credits, housing benefit etc to survive. Until minimum wage is raised, benefits like that will need to exist.

‘The dole’ is Jobseeker’s Allowance and is honestly pittance. Since the Tories came about it is also increasingly difficult to claim it. Nobody will be on JSA out of choice anymore, it’s not worth the aggro.

I don’t honestly know how people raise children on income support/JSA. I’ve never been on it but I know it equates to something like £70 a week for a single adult (I think that’s even with children). Housing benefit is to pay rent and often doesn’t cover the full amount. No idea how much child tax credits are but now they no longer give you them for any child past the second. Child benefit is basically nothing either. Single parents on benefits must really struggle, it isn’t a ‘lifestyle choice’ as the daily fail loves to make out. Nobody would choose to be so broke.

@FourFriedChickens

I reckon it’d be doable for us but I’ll work it out properly later. ‘Easy’ in that everything would be covered, strict budgeting and meal planning but tbh I do that already. I have said however that I’m well aware I live in a ‘cheap’ area, something affordable for us may be ridiculous for others.

Oh I hate these threads. Try looking for work with a disability. I’m visually impaired, want to work, have some experience but no one wants to touch me once my disability comes up.

Taking the first job that comes along, ends with my sight causing issues and me back in the job centre.

It’s awful. Absolutely soul destroying.

Lollipop, let me know about that then.
As for living in a 'cheap' area..that is not really the point. Food and utilities (which is what most of your money will go on) are the same across the country, more or less.
You dont sound very smart tbh, if you are still on about 'cheap areas'.

@FourFriedChickens

You said you’re electricity bill was £30 a week, mine is £30 per month. That by definition is an awful lot cheaper! So yes just off that alone my living costs are most likely to work out a lot cheaper than yours. Simply, it would seem, down to area.

well yes but you probably have gas as well?
Its not about area so much as individual house.
My house was cob built in 1791 and there is no gas mains.

The sanctions may be strict if you aren’t looking but if you’re applying (even if they’re things you’re vastly under qualified for) whilst pursuing career plans then you’re fine.

Unless your bus gets stuck in traffic on your way to one of your Job Centre interviews and you're late - sanctioned.
Unless you're attending a job interview at the same time as your Job Centre slot - sanctioned
Unless you're ill in hospital and can't make your Job Centre meeting - sanctioned.

Not fine. You're very naive, OP.

I claimed JSA when I had to leave my 12 hour day job, early into my very difficult pregnancy whilst I was searching for something less demanding until I would have my baby.

OP you do know people have died because of these sanctions don't you? And I'm not talking one or two either.
Let's take the man with type 1 diabetes who was sanctioned and found dead in his flat because he couldn't afford food (I think that's correct but I'll find the report and double check). How is this inhumane treatment allowed?

Even if you're chronically ill and claiming esa, if you're put in the wrag group then you're expected to take steps to improve your chances of getting work (and now you're paid the same as jsa). You have to attend the job centre for interviews etc.

I have a long term inflammatory disease and I'm fairly heavily medicated with immunosuppressants. If my husband decided one day to just upsticks and leave then I'd have no choice but to claim benefits because I no longer work, and most employers would run a mile at employing me, needing time off for hospital appointments, blood tests and just days when I can hardly move. I'd be sanctioned more than likely. It's not a thought I'd relish and there's no way I could manage financially without series hardship.

The sanctions for those examples are obviously ridiculous, however they are completely and entirely irrelevant to the discussion started.

The discussion was... who do you believe should be in receipt of JSA.
My argument it should be a short term measure to help people back into employment.
The other argument, that it should be used to live on whilst you further your career.

@sluttybutty I’m assuming as you have a chronic illness meaning you are unable to work the you wouldn’t be actively seeking either employment or to further your career?
@Fourfriedchickens
Living costs on JSA also have zilch to do with whether you’re looking for a job or career but I’ll indulge as I’m intrigued to work out for myself if I’d be able to live