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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask if the English are judgemental against people speaking improper English?

232 replies

ConfusedWife1234 · 15/04/2018 21:01

Hey,
I am not a native speaker and I always wondered how English people think about people who make grammatical or other errors when speaking/writing their language. So far most did not say a thing but what are they thinking?

OP posts:
ThanksForAllTheFish · 15/04/2018 23:24

I’m Scottish not English but I’m assuming you are referring to the UK as a whole rather than England specifically.

I do not expect non native English speakers to speak perfectly grammatically correct sentences. I am aware a lot of other languages have completely different rules and sentence structure to English. If I am talking to a non native speaker then I am usually impressed that they have learned a second language in the first place.

I do however have issues with native speakers using incorrect grammar or spellings. I’m not talking about local dialect or phrases, just the proper grammar rules that are thought in primary school.

A particular bugbear of mine is the use of ‘’me and my husband’’ (or any other name/person in place of husband) rather than ‘’my husband and I’’.

The misuse of their/there or wear/were cand be annoying. Another common mis spelling I see a lot on Facebook is enjoy spelt injoy. I get irrationally annoyed by that one.

Where I live the local slang tends to follow the rules of changing out the vowel sounds in a word for a different vowel sound. So milk is mulk. No is pronounced naw. The A in jacket is pronounced as you would as a capital A rather than a soft a. Etc. That in itself must be very confusing for a non native English speaker living / visiting. I know people from other parts of the UK can struggle to understand it.

Original poster
ConfusedWife1234 · 15/04/2018 23:27

So my husband and me would be improper English and the correct version would be my husband and I, did I get this right? I think I always said this wrong.

OP posts:
FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 15/04/2018 23:28

" A particular bugbear of mine is the use of ‘’me and my husband’’ (or any other name/person in place of husband) rather than ‘’my husband and I’’."

but it's fine, if it agrees with the case of the sentence.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 15/04/2018 23:30

' the inlaws came over and spent some time with me and my husband' is fine,

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 15/04/2018 23:30

or my husband and me, whichever one you prefer,

Original poster
ConfusedWife1234 · 15/04/2018 23:31

Would Me and my husband went to see the rugby game be proper English?

OP posts:
BookWitch · 15/04/2018 23:32

I also teach ESL and have done for many years

I don't judge learners of English at all, but as many have said I do judge native speakers making shocking grammar errors.

Students ask me how to use certain phrases, like kinda, gotta, and I'll say they are spoken only and not to be written, they happily accept that (until they see it on TwitterHmm)

I DO have issues with non-native English teachers (I teach overseas) telling me I am wrong, usually when I tell a student a phrase sounds stilted or old fashioned and while it is fine to write, you would never hear it spoken these days.
I also have issues with my neighbour who has done an online TEFL and now happily tells me how easy my job is and she only did her TEFL because she was bored Confused

Original poster
ConfusedWife1234 · 15/04/2018 23:33

Why is it called husband by the way. Does it have to do with the word husbandry?

I always used to say my man but have been told this word is wrong. I think husband is a very odd word.

OP posts:
PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 15/04/2018 23:33

You have been teaching English as a second language Four Fried? That must be very challenging as there is no single version for you to teach? How do you even start in assessments? Must be really tricky?

SaucyJane · 15/04/2018 23:34

OP - it depends. Sometimes it's "and me", sometimes it's "and I". The easiest way to tell is to remove "my husband" in your head.

So in the sentence, "my mother is coming to stay with [my husband and me] or [my husband and I]", you remove "my husband" and decide whether you think it's, "my mother is coming to stay with me" or "my mother is coming to stay with I". Then when you've decided, you put your husband back where he belongs!

Hope that makes sense.

Graphista · 15/04/2018 23:34

Ok well I'll use a phrase from my birthplace as response to your claims fourfried - aye right! Grin

SaucyJane · 15/04/2018 23:36

The same would apply in your example. So would you say: "me went to see the rugby game" or: "I went to see the rugby game"?

Once you've decided, then add back "my husband and".

hedgebackwards · 15/04/2018 23:37

My English teacher told us that written English is one thing, and spoken English is something else entirely.

SaucyJane · 15/04/2018 23:38

I loathe sloppy grammar in native English speakers. Things like "I was sat over there when..."

Oh, were you? Who sat you there, then??! Angry

Graphista · 15/04/2018 23:41

Yes husband and husbandry are related. A husband if you go back far enough was the house person who tilled the land.

Similar root also becomes housewife.

applesauce1 · 15/04/2018 23:42

@SaucyJane What a beautifully succinct and perfect explanation. That is the way my mother taught me to choose 'me' or 'I' and it is the way I tech my class.

Fewer or less is another pet peeve of mine. I remember it as: I couldn't care less, or I couldn't give fewer shits. You can't count how many cares one gives, but you could, feasibly, count shits.
I do not teach my students this aide-memoire!

ThanksForAllTheFish · 15/04/2018 23:42

ConfusedWife1234

My husband and me could also be correct depending on the sentence. The rule is that you should place the other persons name before your own.

“My husband and I” or “My husband and me.” Not “Me and my husband.”

In reality a lot of people do say “me and my husband” but every time I hear someone say it that way my brain automatically picks up on it as being incorrect and it annoys me.

SaucyJane · 15/04/2018 23:45

Thanks Applesauce - laughing at the counting shits!!

Now that DD is talking, I get cross because DP, who has a strong London accent, always says "them" when he means "those" or even "that".

Let's not get started on "of" instead of "have" or apostrophes, shall we...... !

applesauce1 · 15/04/2018 23:46

@SaucyJane I love you more and more! I tell my class to add "baby" to the "sat" to check the accuracy of the sentence.
For example, "I was babysat for hours." Doesn't make sense, if you are the object of the sentence, but, "I was babysitting for hours." Does work.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/04/2018 23:49

Do I struggle when someone insists on speaking patois when I have heard them speaking to their parents with middle England accents just five minutes before?

Aren't you a delight? As a teenager, I spoke very differently to my friends (Saaf Laandon, innit), my parents, my school, my employer. Because I'm adaptable. And I understand that usage is important.

I vividly remember saying 'yeah' at school as a young child and being hauled in front of the class and being humiliated made to say 'yes'. That teacher was an arsehole. But I learned an important lesson; know the ignorances and prejudices of your audience and play them. And when I'm back home, I still drop my 'haitches', innit.

SenecaFalls · 15/04/2018 23:51

When the King's English is the English of William V, we may have a new rule because I have heard Prince William say "Catherine and I" when he should have said "Catherine and me."

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 15/04/2018 23:57

OP, if you would say ‘I’, eg I like, I went, I have etc, then you would use ‘my husband and I’.

“My husband and I own this house”

If you would say ‘me’, eg ‘she gave it to me, the photo of me, that belongs to me, you would say ‘my husband and me’.

“This house belongs to my husband and me”

As SaucyJack says, take away ‘my husband and’ then see if it sound right.

Me and my husband is commonly used but not good English. Similarly me and my mum, me and my friend.

PaintedHorizons · 15/04/2018 23:57

I was an English teacher for many, many years. Also studied linguistics as part of my degree so know exactly what FourFried means.

If everyone in my town or region or country says something a particular way and we all understand it then that is correct. It is not a sign of ignorance or stupidity just because it is not said in the same way as another subset of people would say it. Most English people can understand an American TV programme and would not tell the actors they were speaking incorrectly - and yet to make a point about social class they might tell the Geordie that he was making mistakes with his grammar.

And with new words - who decides what is correct??? (Is it "I text him yesterday" or "I texted him yesterday" ? )

Anyway - I think I should probably unload the dishwasher "get up them stairs to bed"

SaucyJane · 15/04/2018 23:58

Lots of people think that using "myself" or "yourself" makes them sound somehow more correct too. As in, "Could you call myself back later on please?"

No. Nothing wrong with "me" and "you"!

TammyWhyNot · 15/04/2018 23:59

“Would Me and my husband went to see the rugby game be proper English?”

Me : when something is done to you. For example, ‘’my husband took me to the rugby game “
I : when you did it : “I went to the rugby game”. “‘My husband and I went to the rugby game”

“ I did this “
“This happened to me”

Or, in grammatical terms, I is for when you are the subject of the verb, Me is for when you are the object.

I never ever judge learning or second language speakers of English. Why should I ? I admire them! speak very little of any other language.