...to not want 4 y/o to be in ‘gifted’ programme if it means less playtime?

[abiveve]

I’m turning to Mumsnet in exasperation as Dh and I have been arguing about this for the whole school Easter holidays.

Dd is in reception at a state primary. At the end of last term, we were asked to go into school to meet with her teacher and the school’s ‘Head of Learning’. They told us that dd had been identified as ‘gifted’ and they wanted to put her in the gifted and talented programme. When I asked what this would entail, they said that two days a week, instead of playing outside after lunch, dd and 3-4 other reception children would do extra learning activities to stretch them.

Dh is thrilled by this. I am not. think that it would be fine if they were stretching her more in lesson time, but I don’t want her to have to lose out on playtime twice a week. She’s 4 ffs - I want her to have fun and play outside with her friends, not do extra maths in a stuffy classroom. Especially with summer coming.

FWIW, the school’s Ofsted report last year marked them down for failing to stretch the brightest children, so I worry that they’re taking it to the opposite extreme and dd is going to pay the price. I also think that Dh’s head is swelling rather at the thought of having a ‘gifted’ (hate that word) child - he was straight in on the phone to his parents to tell them after the meeting...

Hoppinggreen my reception daughter(age 5) has been nagging me to join Spanish club at lunchtime once a week. She loves pretending to speak Spanish and french and several of her friends go. I have signed her up this term and just read your post. Do you think it's a mistake? She was so keen. I now feel like a pushy parent

Goodness, no, she has asked!!

Yanbu at all. Let her be 4.

Tell your DH that she will be no less "gifted" as a result of running around in the playground with her mates, but probably a whole lot happier.

The school sounds like it has lost its way a bit with its support for more able children.

As she is still in Reception class, access to outside areas should be more accessible than the normal morning/afternoon break times in key stage 1/2.

She is still learning through the EYFS Curriculum, therefore outdoor play and learning should be longer than other classes.

At this age I don't think she will be missing any 'play time' as it shouldn't be set times throughout the day.

Hope this helps.

Your dd is lucky to have such a sensible and intelligent parent, shame I can't say the same for the school.

OP, you are eminently sensible. I do not believe that a child who is of an age to be mostly learning through play would benefit from having 'play time' removed from them, on the say so of a teacher because of a few things easily explained away by yourself.

my dc is 'gifted' but in reception the thing she really needed to learn was about friendship. Plus now she is slightly older, playtime is her absolute favourite thing about school. No way would I subject her to more lessons!

If she is in reception isn't most of her time spent learning through play with free access to outdoor play space throughout the school day? Does your DD understand that there is a (theorectical) difference between playtime and non-playtime or is it all much of a muchness to her?

In YR do you know it's "extra maths" or is it, from her point of view, just a different type of play? YR teachers are really good at teaching through play, and it's quite possible that an extra learning type activity is genuinely fun for her. My two were weirdly keen on Numicon at that age.

So she is offered extra special fun time and you want to turn that down?

@MichonnesBBF, do you work in a school or nursery setting?

I've been in both and while in nursery/preschool that is always the case, in Reception it cannot always happen. I've worked in schools that have separate Reception play areas for during class times, and schools that keep them in until scheduled outside play, aside from occasional visits that meet the EYFS criteria.

It is obviously not ideal, but it is common.

In terms of what the sessions would be, the school said they would be focusing on improving her reading and ‘logic skills’

Outdoor play is limited to break and lunchtime at dd’s school, as it’s a large school with limited outdoor space, so time outside has to be staggered, with 2 yeargroups out at a time.

So she doesn’t get other times outside during the school day.

Large in terms of number of students (they have 3-4 classes per year)

I don't think she should be missing any extra playtime for extension work ( sounds like an attempt at trying to lease Ofsted).

DD2 was identified as gifted at about this age.

At around 7 she was being bold in school so we enrolled her in a gifted childen programme on a Saturday morning in our local Uni for 6 weeks. Her choice, because she was bored in school and this gave her another outlet. Same thing at around 9 and same again around 11. Always her choice.

Her Secondary school run a "Smart Club" (my kids name for it) for high achievers every Monday morning for half hour, this year their learning a language; in addition she goes to a STEM club on Saturday afternoons and learns a foreign language for an hour a week. Still her choice.

Point I'm making is DD2 always made the choice about what extra work she wanted to do and when. And we always encouraged team sports to improve her social skills, teamworking abilities, activity levels and just so she could have fun.

Logic skills would be things like shape puzzles, human knots, standing on a rug and flipping it, building gravity bridges. in other words games. i just don't see a reason to not let her try it

Contepetie: Yes I work in both a Nursery and Reception Class setting.

I should of said in 'My Experience', because you are right not all schools can enforce the EYFS guidelines for outdoor play, if the school does not have the resources yet to facilitate this (separate play areas).

Maybe these are questions the OP can ask?

YANBU. I must say if a teacher had said this to me when DS was young, I would have jumped at the chance, however, now he is an adult, I look back on those precious early years and realise they often know what they need themselves. DS was young in his school year ("summer born") and his reception teacher told me he once got up half way through a maths lesson when he was four years-old, thanked her for an interesting lesson, but told her he had had enough, and took himself off to the book corner with Peter, the class rabbit. He now has an MA (DS, not the rabbit). As an aside, I hate the term gifted in this context; we all have gifts and talents.

So a teacher is prepared to give up her lunchtimes to give your child some additional small group attention in probably a fun learning environment?

She'll probably love it

I'm assuming she's in a class of 30 kids and teachers don't always get chance to give individual attention

I doubt it would be for long anyway and the others catch up and overtake

Ha ha snakes knowing snakes are wiggly is 'gifted' ? What the heck are the 'non-gifted children like'

Teachers rarely get the choice. Here it's all about the after school "booster classes so those needing a boost to get whichever grads have extra lessons. I completely disagree with this even in juniors never mind infants.

The exams/need for data are driving education now :(

Sorry OP, can see you have answered that question already,

As the Reception Class has no direct outdoor, I would agree with you that playtime and fresh air is just as important as class learning during normal school times.

Maybe speak with the Management team and see if a compromise could be reached?

My niece had something similar. Now she's five. She is super clever it's shocking. Parents said no. Was the right decision. She's still top of the class and loves her homework which the parents take time over at home. Or they'll play fun learning games at home. At school she plays with everyone else. I suppose all kids are different but confidence and happiness is important. Useless being clever if you're unhappy and my niece likes to be with friends.

My son was classified as gifted at age 5. To be fair he often refused to go out to play so that he could “ do another maths book”. So my answer would be it depends on the child.
In our area at the time was an after school activity for gifted children at another school. He went a few times but it was very difficult to get him there ( half hours drive away) as I worked full time. You could ask around if anything similar.
I think my son was very quick to assimilate things at a young age. As he and his peers grew up this difference became less marked and at one point was a disadvantage as he didn’t learn more complex things as thoroughly. He did well though until he got to Uni where the lifestyle didn’t deliver a first! 😂

Going against the grain, considering the number of parents who complain that their dc isn't being stretched or misbehaves out of boredom, I'm with your dh on this. G&T used to be the top 10%, and it's not at all easy for a class teacher to make provision for them at the same time as teaching the rest of the class, while the TA is busy, as she should be, with the bottom 10%.

It will be age-appropriate and only 2 days a week. If she doesn't enjoy it, then you can withdraw her.

Do you know what DD wants to do?

DS at that age would have loved it. He would probably have been miffed if we had said no. Also in YR they usually have 2 other breaks in the day, although if space is limited I assume they may not always go outside for those.