Why do people get annoyed if I cancel but still pay them the full whack?

[seventhcircleofhellwithafag]

My family and I live quite a spontaneous life. Due to mine and DH's work we're currently based in two countries.

We have a cleaner, a nanny and a personal trainer in each country part-funded by the companies we work for. The companies understand that as part of the spontaneous nature of our work, plans change at the last minute and are out of our control.

Out of respect for the occupations of the people whose services we use when we are in each country, we fix hours per week in advance which they are supposed to work at a (very good) rate. (For e.g. we pay our nannies £20 per hour net.)

Often we can tell them about 24 hours in advance that we won't be there. Regardless of whether we actually make the appointments on the days that we have booked them, we always pay them the full amount that we have booked them for.

Despite this, some of them complain a lot that they don't want to be "sitting around." I am trying to understand this. No-one is forcing them to sit around. If we have given them sufficient warning, then they can find something else to do that they enjoy (while still being paid!) or they can take other work if it's available. Either way is not a lose situation.

I understand that people genuinely enjoy their jobs and want to actually be doing them - of course they do. But if they are unhappy in their job, they have a choice to leave.

Is there something I am not seeing here?

This happened a lot to me in my first job as a nanny (although unpaid, which was its own issue!) I had just been through a break up and was very lonely at the time. I remember crying one Sunday night when my boss texted to say she wouldn’t need me that week. I didn’t particularly need the money, but I was so lonely that suddenly having an empty week to fill filled me with dread. It was too late to make plans, and even with notice, my friends all work in the day. I can empathise with your nanny a lot.

(I’m still a nanny and if this happened now I’d be delighted, but I can understand why someone might not. Not working isn’t always great for your mental health.)

If you are paying them I don't understand it. I would love to "sit around" waiting for you (during paid hours) and read a book check mumsnet

Reading this thread has made me realise I'm incredibly lazy.

Can we clarify that the nanny isn't actually sitting in your house ?

Surely there is always something the nanny could do, even if not a full day's work, if she doesn't like doing nothing? Depending on the age of the kids, there will always be some clothes washing and tidying (for example) which couldn't be done on a day when the kids were being looked after. If these cancellations are commonplace, and the nanny doesn't want to do nothing, can't you and she plan that this non-immediate-child-care stuff could be done when the kids weren't there? Other tasks too perhaps - meal-planning for example.

I have come across folks (usually women) who can't abide doing nothing, always wanting to bustle, and maybe your nanny is one of those? In which case without some make-work as suggested above, she needs a new job and you need a lazier nanny!

being paid to do nothing sounds pretty sweet to me!

Working isn't just about turning up then taking home a wage. For trainers it's about keeping skills up to date, client referrals and so on. For nannies there is often a vocational element. I do my job because I enjoy it and if I was sat twiddling my thumbs I'd leave for a busier job where I could actually do the job I'd trained to do.

The fact you this keep happening suggests the problem might be at your end. You say you tell them personally: is it the way you're doing it?

Your nanny is weird. I'll take £20 an hour to be on my own please

I'm another who'd like to come and work for you.

However, with the lonely nanny, it sounds as if you've employed people who need to be occupied all the time in their work. I guess you could have a chat, reassure them they're in no danger of losing the job...then I think you've done all you can.

I had this recently. I booked a massage then got stuck at work late and totally forgot about it until a few minutes before. I called, apologised, and said I would transfer the full payment over right away, which I did. Masseuse was SO pissy with me. If she had said, "Oh nevermind, things happen, and here are my bank details" I would have booked with her again. As it was, she lost a customer with terrible posture and therefore in need of regular massages

I didn't get it. I cancelled late, so she couldn't book someone else in... but I paid her.

Actually I can kind of understand their point. It’s not about the money - it’s about them not getting the opportunity to do the job they chose to do and obviously love.

Our nanny was originally hired as a maternity nurse - she loves caring for babies and she spent a long time training to do it. Now that DS is 2 and at nursery for part of the week, her role is very different and she has made several comments that make me realise she misses her ‘old’ job. (Lucky for her DC2 is she very soon )

Can I have a job please?

Surely they have the imagination to occupy themselves.

They could learn some other skills. Learn a language. Do all the millions of things I would love to do if i had more time.

You’re not responsible for your nanny’s entertainment. She’s not losing out on money and her time has been blocked off as working so not having to is a bonus.

Reminds me of a poster on the rubbish customer service thread who wanted to purchase all the slices of cake on the counter at Morrisons.
She was faced with refusal by the staff member as ‘what if other customers want to buy a slice?’ and couldn’t comprehend that ten slices sold to one person is just the same as one slice to ten customers .

It strikes me as your nanny/trainer having the same illogical mindset.

Well if they can't find anything to do.....could you gift them a basic tablet and tell them to join MN? I find time files in here!

*flies

YANBU. But I can see that this could be a problem for some people who for whatever reason, who might not have much to do outside work eg being new to the area as a PP said. I moved for work a fair bit when I was younger and you can rely on the your job for purpose and opportunities to meet people, at least at first. But, it isn't impossible to work through it if it is just part of the nature of the job and you are otherwise planning on staying.

But aside from this, I can't really see the problem. Surely they can take up an extra hobby to fill the time? Or do their own boring life admin?! They do sound like people who aren't very creative or self sufficient. The only time I have been perversely annoyed like this in a similar situation, I didn't actually want to stay in the job so it was part of the overall frustration.

Did they know about these scenarios when they took the jobs?

primers I get what you're saying.
At the beginning of the thead, I thought that being paid for being cancelled was no issue. Where's the problem.
However, a professional is there to provide a skilled service.
I think this situation puts them in the ' hired help' bracket, perhaps.
Maybe they're uncomfortable with that.

@adaline I think it’s quite clear that OP doesn’t expect that confused otherwise why bother notifying them!

If it's clear, why has the nanny responded saying she wasn't employed to sit on her own for eight hours?

I thought the same and asked the OP but having read the OP back they do address it:

Despite this, some of them complain a lot that they don't want to be "sitting around." I am trying to understand this. No-one is forcing them to sit around. If we have given them sufficient warning, then they can find something else to do that they enjoy (while still being paid!) or they can take other work if it's available. Either way is not a lose situation.

When you say you fix hours pw in advance, what do you mean? Does the nanny have a contract say for 24 hours working Monday-Wednesday and she is expected to be available for those hours and you may or may not need her, or is it a case of you having a contract for 24 hours over three days but you don't fix the actual days she is to work until the week before, and then you may not use her anyway. If it is the latter, which I suspect it may be, I can understand why she is not happy.

I'd be jumping for joy with a job like that. Being paid and not actually having to work. Perfect.

I'd also be jumping for joy if I loved my job that much that I'd rather be working than having a bonus paid day off. That's weird but I'd love to be that person.

I do agree that employees should feel valued and chosen for their particular skills and qualities rather than being just the hired help, faceless, easily replaceable etc, but I don't think I would feel like that if I was still being paid even when not needed.

But I agree with Lapsang that there is big a difference between being booked and paid for working Mon to Fri and ending up only working Weds- Fri but paid for the whole week, and being booked for a set numbers of hours but which get cancelled at short notice and you end up working Weds - Sun.

I have been 'staff' a few times and most employers tried to extract the most they could at any opportunity and being not needed meant having to use a day of annual leave, almost always at the last minute which was totally taking the piss.

But also, what is the alternative for the OP if she wants/ needs the services when she is there? Guaranteeing to pay whether or not there is work is all she can do. But if she wants to rearrange rather than simply cancel then that would be difficult. But I don't think this is what the OP is doing.

Hmm. I'm on the fence about this. If it was once a month it would be great but if it literally half of my contracted hours on short notice it would get wearing quickly.

People don't just go to work for money. And not knowing if they will be going back for their next shift would be frustrating for planning. (e.g. Cleaner - floors need doing again in two days but if you cancel that shift then they'll have to go a week without a mop and will look terrible. Which reflects badly on cleaner.)

Also, if they have kids themselves in childcare, they are paying for a service they don't need. If I suddenly had the day off I wouldn't have anyone to spend it with since everyone else would be at work. And frequent unplanned days spent alone would get boring quickly. It's all very well saying tidy the house, go to a yoga class etc but the lack of routine would bug me no end. I am a creature of habit and like to have things planned!

Why would anyone have a problem with not working ( except slieven above who has a problem not using her skills!)

I doubt I'm the only person who actually prefers to use the skills I've worked hard to obtain, am very good at, and enjoy using, am I? Tbh most pp on this thread sound like lazy workshy loafers!

I work for myself and if you did this to me regularly I wouldn’t book you in any more.

I do my job because I love it. It interests me and keeps my skills fresh.