Why do people get annoyed if I cancel but still pay them the full whack?

[seventhcircleofhellwithafag]

My family and I live quite a spontaneous life. Due to mine and DH's work we're currently based in two countries.

We have a cleaner, a nanny and a personal trainer in each country part-funded by the companies we work for. The companies understand that as part of the spontaneous nature of our work, plans change at the last minute and are out of our control.

Out of respect for the occupations of the people whose services we use when we are in each country, we fix hours per week in advance which they are supposed to work at a (very good) rate. (For e.g. we pay our nannies £20 per hour net.)

Often we can tell them about 24 hours in advance that we won't be there. Regardless of whether we actually make the appointments on the days that we have booked them, we always pay them the full amount that we have booked them for.

Despite this, some of them complain a lot that they don't want to be "sitting around." I am trying to understand this. No-one is forcing them to sit around. If we have given them sufficient warning, then they can find something else to do that they enjoy (while still being paid!) or they can take other work if it's available. Either way is not a lose situation.

I understand that people genuinely enjoy their jobs and want to actually be doing them - of course they do. But if they are unhappy in their job, they have a choice to leave.

Is there something I am not seeing here?

"I didn't sign up to be sat on my own for eight hours a day."

Hang on, are you expecting them to still turn up for work just incase you turn up later, or are they free to just have the day off at home to do whatever they choose?

I think the Nanny sounds really snippy, and I wouldn't want to work with her! Why would anyone have a problem with not working ( except slieven above who has a problem not using her skills!)

Her message is unprofessional.

I work in an industry where there are very few of us, and I would receive a full cancellation fee if cancelled within x number of days.

The odd cancellation I wouldn't mind, but repeated ones by the same client, yes, it would start to tick me off. For two reasons. One: there are very few of us, and I will probably have turned down other bookings for the same day. So the time that I am now going to be sitting around twiddling my fingers is time that could have been better put to use working with someone who did need my support and wouldn't have cancelled (admittedly, I'm in a totally different area of work to OP).

Secondly, some people actually do want to work! Repeatedly being cancelled, whether they get paid or not, is not something they want to happen. It's not for OP to decide whether or not this is a good deal for them - that's for them to decide.

Equally though, if the nanny doesn't like the way things are panning out, she can always resign and find a new job where the employer won't be regularly cancelling her at short notice. She knows the lay of the land.

It is one reason I never arrange meetings for work and just work by email as I cannot stand cancellations or delays on phone calls etc. I think it is also that people will ahve got ready for the work, perhaps arranged childcare, perhaps got clothes out, organised things, filled the car with petrol and yes they will be paid for not doing anythinng but they will still feel let down.

there is actually employment case law on the issue - in one case the judge said - if I pay a cook it is up to me whether or not I give her any cooking to do (no breach of contract for lower grade work); whereas if someone needs to practise their skills to keep them up to date it was a breach of the law (for employees by the way, not self employed) to pay them but not give them work as their skills got out of date.

YANBU OP.

A lot of people hang too much 'value' on being valued at work in my experience.

It leads to taking things far too personally. I was that soldier. Am not now.

adaline I think it’s quite clear that OP doesn’t expect that otherwise why bother notifying them!

Personally I think it’s ridiculous to object to being given a paid day off when you are in a well-paid service role. If you feel like you’re not being appreciated then you need to cop on to yourself IMO.

I was a personal trainer and I would have loved having you as a client! I would have gone to the gym myself instead or done something nice I didn't usually have time for, or caught up on paperwork...it was the people who didn't turn up or cancelled last minute from the prime slots then didn't want to pay/refused to pay that were the ones who made me angry!

If they don't have many family or friends, and/or moved to a new area or country for work, then work might be their lifeline in terms of filling their time and passing the time

I'd take it as a sign she really enjoys her time with your DC and maybe has planned things to do with them. Which in itself is good, but its not very professional for her to talk to you like that.

I'd say when you next see her that your job will continue to be like this and that you're very happy with her looking after the DC and paying for days when shes not needed but if shes not happy to continue with that arrangement then you'll understand if she wants to look for a new job.

adaline I think it’s quite clear that OP doesn’t expect that confused otherwise why bother notifying them!

If it's clear, why has the nanny responded saying she wasn't employed to sit on her own for eight hours?

I mean, if my boss told me I wasn't needed that day, but that I could stay home on full pay, I'd be thrilled and make the most of a day off. But that text gives the impression that she's perhaps not free to just do what she wants.

I have a part time job, self employed but one regular client. Tonight I have been called 2 hours before my shift to say I’m not needed, I will still get paid as I will invoice them for my shift but I’m still annoyed. I enjoy my job and I plan childcare for the evenings I work. I would be happy with 24 hours notice as it would give me time to make other plans and cancel child care but I think if it kept happening I would be annoyed.

seventhcircleofhellwithafag
"Despite this, some of them complain a lot that they don't want to be "sitting around." I am trying to understand this."

This is just something people say to be polite because they don't want to seem lazy or ungrateful to their employer. i.e. they don't mean it and aren't complaining

You ARE respecting their time by paying them for it irrespective of them not working. I don’t get their problem.

They are bonkers!! Fully paid duvet days, who doesn't love them?

If it happens often I can understand why they get annoyed as they probably organise their holidays and social life and childcare around work. Perhaps the nanny has planned activities and arranged to meet with other nannies and now she can't do that.

What do other people who hire domestic help do and pay in those countries? Not sure you’ll get good advice unless you share the countries names. For example - in Hong Kong and India cleaners can earn up to £100/mth per client if they are available mornings and evenings. Nannies can get regular paid work in Shanghai for approx 400-500/mth. In Asia your fees would not be classed as very much.

YANBU, think people who'd be annoyed by this are being very unfair, yes they might have had to turn down plans or arrange childcare etc but the point is that would happen whether they had to do the hours for you or not, so they haven't lost out at all! Even someone desperate to do the work paid for could find something relevant to fill the time, if I was the cleaner I'd clean my own house, if I was the nanny I'd use the time to do some research, expand my skills. Or I'd just have some time off! Anyone twiddling their thumbs getting annoyed has no imagination and it's being very unreasonable.

Please can I be your nanny!

I enjoy working so to be told 'sorry you're not needed' at quite short notice, I wouldn't like it.

Some people are not particularly spontaneous. If you gave me tomorrow off at short notice and it was rainy and there wasn't a film I fancied at the cinema and my friends were all busy then I'm not sure what I would do either.

Depending on how often it happens I might not want to spend any more time reading a book or organising my house or going shopping. I like my days to have a bit of a purpose.

I'm trying to guess which country is that, where people are so attached to their routines that they get pissed off for being paid and not having to work!

??? it would be my dream for my boss to tell me not to bother doing the work but still paying me -_-

Just a thought, does the nanny have to organise childcare or any medical appointments around her job? Maybe she arranges things around her kids/husband and it cause problems when her work is cancelled or changed at short-notice?

I think it’s probably the feeling of ‘not being needed’. If, in particular, the nanny feels she’s not ‘needed’ by you she might feel a lot less part of your children’s lives than she has in previous jobs. It’s nice in a way as she’s indicating she feels they are important to her and she just wants to feel important to you.

It wouldn’t be for everyone. So just talk to her and maybe she needs a more demanding role where she feels part of the family set up and you need someone who gets less validation from their job. No one is in the wrong. Just different

Although I feel that’s more significant for the nanny, it’s also possible the others feel that way too

Plenty of people wouldn’t mind one bit!

Another thing is making sure that they know that you let them know as soon as you know. My job is similar in some ways and what really pisses me off is not when I’m told, but when I’m told in relation to when they know. If they only know when I’m on the way and they tell me immediately, I’m ok with that. If they tell me the day before but they’ve known for a week then I’m spectacarly pissed off.

Ask them to be honest about what it is that’s bothering them. I worked for a guy once who just had this knack of mansplaining & being patronising. I ignored it for far too long & was about to hand in my notice, then I exploded one day and he changed overnight and I loved the job and we are still friends many years later.

It’s not always what you say, but how you say it. Perhaps there’s just something irritating about what or how you say when you tell them?

I really enjoy what I do (walking other people's dogs) and find myself faintly annoyed if I am cancelled last minute. I have a 24 hour cancellation policy and will still be paid, but I think I'd find myself getting bored by a client who was regularly doing this. Doing something else with unexpected time off isn't easy round here, arranging to meet friends etc normally needs to be sorted several days in advance. Having said, I wouldn't grump about it and would continue to put the bookings in the diary and turn up when actually definitely needed.

Do you give them 2-3 days notice if you want them? Or just if you dont?

Does your nanny live in? Is she ending up spending lots of time in an empty house?