To warn my friend to be careful about going on holiday while on sick leave?

[rebsemmie]

One of my dearest friends has been off work for the last 4 weeks because of a digestive fungus. Her health is not great in general, she tends to catch bugs and viruses very often, so she has taken quite a bit of time off work in the last year, but nothing unreasonable. She has a relatively entry-level professional job at a big company.

Yesterday I called her to ask her how she was, and she said she is not doing well at all, in fact she is getting worse and she has terrible issues with extreme fatigue and headaches. As a result, she decided to take another 2 weeks off from work, for a total of 6 weeks off. She hopes she will be able to go back to work at the beginning of May.

Then she told me she is going on holiday to Greece next week as she thinks unplugging under the sun will improve her health. Honestly, I don't know if going on holiday will improve her health or not, but I am bit concerned that she will post on social media from her holiday (she is very active on social media) and that she might have serious trouble at work if her colleagues see that she went on holiday while being on sick leave. I know for sure she is connected to several colleagues on social media.

If I was her manager and I found out she went on holiday, I would seriously question whether she was really sick or just taking the piss. In fact, at my old job a colleague received an official reprimand because she took a sick day to care for her sick child and then posted a pic on fb on the beach with her child. Her manager assumed she lied about her child being sick and that she just wanted a day off.

So, AIBU to warn my friend to be careful about posting from her holiday? Or should I mind my own business? I am concerned she might take offence and think I am criticising her for going on holiday, when in fact I am just really worried there might be serious consequences if she is not careful.

In my company that I previously worked for if you were off on the sick over holidays booked you got sick pay and your holiday allowance given back to take at later date. This was to stop people taking the mimic by ringing in sick then going away.

I think she should let her boss know particularly as she is going abroad. I happened to read my work sickness policy this week and it said that on can take a holiday during sick leave but management should be informed.

People at work may be disgruntled even when the illness is genuine. A few years ago my sister was signed off sick with a broken leg. Getting into the city on the rammed commuter train was impossible for the first few weeks. We went for a long weekend in the south of France with me pushing her in her wheelchair and put some pictures on Facebook. One of her colleagues decided to report it to her boss!!
If the doctor thinks a break will help then it may be a good idea to let work know.

In that case Tittygolightly can you tell me if I'm right in thinking what I do?

That it's best to let work know, that a holiday if it could be considered incongruent with the reason for being off sick or could be seen to potentially worsen matters could be seen very negatively?

If you are ill during planned annual leave you have the legal right to take it as sick leave and take the annual leave back. Are you in England tittygolightly?

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4264

Most if not all NHS trusts would require a fit note rather than a self cert to change planned annual leave to sick leave.

I work for a council. I'm almost positive that when you're off sick, you are not allowed to go on holiday abroad during sick time, and that you have to be available for contact at all times, whether by phone, home visit, or asked to attend occ health etc.

I wouldn't swear to it, but I think I'm right.

I hope you're feeling better very soon op.

Sorry...forgot it's your friend op, not you!
Errrr. Still. I hope you're ok too!

That it's best to let work know, that a holiday if it could be considered incongruent with the reason for being off sick or could be seen to potentially worsen matters could be seen very negatively?

Hasn’t happened where I work, but yes. If you’re off for 6 months recovering from knee surgery and go off skiing there would probably be some discussion about it!

If you are ill during planned annual leave you have the legal right to take it as sick leave and take the annual leave back. Are you in England tittygolightly?

No, I’m in Wales. Same law.

But you’re describing the opposite situation. We’re talking about going on holiday whilst off sick, not getting sick whilst on holiday.

Couple of English policies for you.

Sorry, I got confused as I was tired last night. You are right @tittygolightly

That’s interesting @tittygolightly. I’ve worked in a number of acute NHS trusts and none of them have taken that view. It still seems alien to the Stringer ruling to me as surely they are still sick while on leave? I’ve had people take leave at the end of periods of sickness, or between cancer treatments, for example, but not whilst certified sick by a GP. Very interesting. Thank you.

They still accrue leave, which is what Stringer was about.

This way the annual leave gets used appropriately, sickness doesn’t become 2 episodes (dosadvantaging the individual) and they don’t lose any sick pay because that is “paused” while the annual leave takes place. Sickness absence policies allow dismissal if the individual fails to engage so it makes sense to do it properly and honestly. It’s usually pretty straight forward.

www.personneltoday.com/hr/holiday-pay-and-sick-leave-ramifications-of-the-stringer-ruling/

Thanks @tittygolightly. I remember when it came out. It just feels against the principle to me, after all you take your illness with you. You don’t suddenly become fit for work just because your away. If your holiday got cancelled you’d go back on sick leave. It might legal but personally I don’t think it’s right, or especially logical. But then life would be boring if we all had the same opinions

I think it really matters here whether ahe is in fact too sick to work or whether she is a good old-fashioned leadswinger as someone said upthread.

Digestive fungus sounds a bit .... unusual. Unless she is immunocompromised following chemo or something else similar. I don't think, for example, candida overgrowth is a thing in otherwise healthy people.

Of course she could have somethjng as yet undiagnosed, or could actually be suffering from e.g. depression, yet too embarrassed to say.

If I were one of her colleagues, I would be very miffed indeed. Damn cheek.

It just feels against the principle to me, after all you take your illness with you. You don’t suddenly become fit for work just because your away

Indeed. But as the contract gives the employee right to sick pay it also bestows a responsibility on the employee to engage with the employer’s sickness absence procedures. In my view you can’t have one without the other. A fortnight in Cuba or on a cruise means you can’t speak with managers or attend occupational health, which may delay a return or not allow reasonable adjustments to be made. All of which costs the employers (remember lots of NHS staff have an entitlement to 6 months full pay plus the costs of covering their work). Evidence suggests that someone that is off for 6 weeks is very likely to still be off after 6 months. So it is vital that employers and employees are communicating to ensure a return to work happens as soon as is appropriate.

It may be beneficial to the individual too. Say they have had 6 months off and are going into half pay. Their doctor suggests a holiday. They use leave, thus getting paid at full pay rate and feel better afterwards and return to with without hitting half pay.

I was really unwell over Christmas. I had two holidays booked and went to both. Work reimbursed my sick leave and were more than happy for me to go. Depends on what's wrong with her, whether she is self certified or has a fit note etc. Best thing for her to do is ask advice from her gp. 'Doc, do you think I am well enough to go on holiday and for it to not make my illness worse?' - if doc has said no to work but yes to holiday, her workplace can't really question it.

That being said, if it were me I would let my workplace know I was going on holiday. I wouldn't recommend being sneaky about it and someone finding out further down the line.

It may be the case that, if you fall sick, legally you can replace your planned holiday with sick leave and then take your holiday later but you would absolutely destroy your relationship with your employer.

I can't imagine anyone sensible who wanted to have a decent working relationship with their employer actually doing this.

Sorry baby I'm not sure if you are saying you did what I am saying would be a terrible idea. Apologies if you did - I'm not trying to be offensive. I just know as an employer I would find it really off.

@Backingvocals that's exactly what I did - it was suggested to me by my manager. I was in a great deal of pain and unable to work. A relaxing holiday away with DP where I can sit back and do absolutely nothing is very different to working in an operational environment. A lot of people can't get their head around this. Being at work working 10 hours a day getting up at 5am and getting home at 6pm would have been hugely detrimental to my health. Sitting in a chalet the other side of the uk able to sleep whenever I fancy, doing next to nothing other than relaxing with DP and family is very different. As I said: depends on the illness and depends on the nature of the holiday!

@Backingvocals my employer does that automatically. And if they find out you were ill they do it backdated.