To warn my friend to be careful about going on holiday while on sick leave?

[rebsemmie]

One of my dearest friends has been off work for the last 4 weeks because of a digestive fungus. Her health is not great in general, she tends to catch bugs and viruses very often, so she has taken quite a bit of time off work in the last year, but nothing unreasonable. She has a relatively entry-level professional job at a big company.

Yesterday I called her to ask her how she was, and she said she is not doing well at all, in fact she is getting worse and she has terrible issues with extreme fatigue and headaches. As a result, she decided to take another 2 weeks off from work, for a total of 6 weeks off. She hopes she will be able to go back to work at the beginning of May.

Then she told me she is going on holiday to Greece next week as she thinks unplugging under the sun will improve her health. Honestly, I don't know if going on holiday will improve her health or not, but I am bit concerned that she will post on social media from her holiday (she is very active on social media) and that she might have serious trouble at work if her colleagues see that she went on holiday while being on sick leave. I know for sure she is connected to several colleagues on social media.

If I was her manager and I found out she went on holiday, I would seriously question whether she was really sick or just taking the piss. In fact, at my old job a colleague received an official reprimand because she took a sick day to care for her sick child and then posted a pic on fb on the beach with her child. Her manager assumed she lied about her child being sick and that she just wanted a day off.

So, AIBU to warn my friend to be careful about posting from her holiday? Or should I mind my own business? I am concerned she might take offence and think I am criticising her for going on holiday, when in fact I am just really worried there might be serious consequences if she is not careful.

Years back - before facebook etc - i was off work with vertigo. My friend drove me to the gp, got a sick note, we went to the chemist i went home to throw up. I was seen out of work by someone, it got back to work i was skiving.... all such a needless nasty fuss over nothing.

People chat over things that dont concern them. If its all open and hr are aware of drs recommendations it just helps avoid any silly bitchyness.

Why cant your friend just pick up the phone?

About 10 years ago my DH was signed off work with stress & the GP suggested going on holiday.

Dh said great idea! He went back for a check up & GP said he'd sign him off for another 2 weeks & DH said not to worry as we were going on holiday so he'd use annual leave & GP refused & told him to go on holiday as normal whilst signed off sick.

DH phoned work & checked with HR who agreed with GP.

We came back & DH was a lot better after some rest & sun!

"We all need holidays to help us destress etc. Doesn’t mean we need to take sick leave to take them. Why can’t she use her holiday allowance like everyone else does instead of extending her sick leave. If she can get through travelling to the airport and all the other stresses that come with the start and end of a holiday she can’t be that sick."

That is exactly what I an afraid her colleagues will think if they know she is going on holiday.

She needs to cover herself. Best to be upfront.

Especially if she's likely to post eating/drinking pics on SM.

Most places won't have a problem IF they're told.

But if she doesn't say anything it could look like she's trying to hide something.

She should also be aware that lots of time off sick can lead to dismissal. Employers have to accommodate where possible but employees have to be generally fit for the job too. If an employee is off more than they're In or its having a significant impact on employers productivity I think they can be sacked.

And yes she needs appropriate complete holiday insurance too.

I get what people are saying about a holiday helping when people are off for a long term illness or stress etc. I think if you are off for 6 months or something then a week in the sun makes sense.
But she has only really been off for a short time period with a very specific ilness. It doesn’t ring the same including a holiday in her sick leave and I think would annoy her colleges. She really needs to go to hr.

She just needs to explain to HR what she's doing. Then she can post to Facebook as much as she likes, and her employer can investigate her if they think she's taking the piss.

I’ve taken holiday whilst on sick leave.

I had a terrible chest infection that just wouldn’t shift. I buggered off to a resort in north wales.

I told the doctor and my employer and sold it to them that I was testing to see if it was allergy related. Get out of my house and away from trees and stuff that were in bloom. Actually I just felt like shit and needed to get out of the house. It worked though, I by the end of it I was ok to be back at work.

@tittygolightly doesn’t that go against the Stringer ruling about the need to retain / accrue holiday when in sick leave? I don’t follow the argument about not being able to meet with your manager - if you were in hospital post op you would be in the same position but it would be sick leave. As I said previously I would expect them to speak to HR before booking / going but assuming they’ve done that and it’s been approved I don’t think you can run sick leave and annual leave simultaneously? 🤔

It’s NHS policy - UK’s biggest employer.

They’re still accruing leave. It’s just that if they choose to be unavailable for occ health/meetings with managers then they need to run leave and sickness concurrently.

Why does she need to tell hr or meet with her manager? She's signed off sick. It's mine of their business. She doesn't have to be available for her manager if she's not fit to work. As someone said upthread it's incredibly outdated idea to think you should be in bed with no phone t.v. access to the outside world because youre sick.

Can't imagine they're that impressed with the amount of time she's had off already is she is only entry-level. Has she been signed off by GP?

So it's ok to be off sick if you've a better job but not if you're entry level?

She will be signed off by her gp because you can only self cert for a week.

makingdinner

Highly likely to be a contractual obligation. Sick leave isn’t a cloak of invisibility. Managers are expected to manage the absence as well. Failure to engage with the process could see you dismissed.

If she’s off with a bad back and there’s photos knocking around of her water-skiing/snow-boarding, doing endurance marathons and partying all night in Ibiza, then work might have a reason to ask questions. If she’s off with stress and trekking in the Dolomites then they would surely be supportive.

I think context is key here.

Policy sections outlining responsibility of employee and manager and section relating to holidays whilst off sick.

We had this dilemma. I’d been ill for months with pain, no clear diagnosis. We have A/L booked and had planned to go abroad but after conversation with my GP we agreed it probably wasn’t wise to travel abroad. Not sure if my insurance would have covered me - we’ve been away since and it’s added an excess to our premium since I was diagnosed!

We went away in the UK. I didn’t put anything on SM. I did put the photos on eventually after I was back at work but no indication of when we went. I think it’s okay for her to go if she’s sure her insurance will cover her (I would make sure she checks this out before booking), also to be very practical about how she’ll feel while travelling. She’s naive if she puts up photos on SM. Even if she’s okay to travel, some people won’t be supportive.

Except it IS their business - literally. Just because she's signed off sick doesn't mean she doesn't still have obligations to her employer.

I believe (I'm sure an HR person will correct me if I'm wrong) but if she were to act in a way that made her MORE ill, delayed returning to work I'd think they'd be within their rights to at the very least discipline her if not sack her.

Re "entry level" I'm guessing the potential issue there is that the career isn't yet established, that the employees reputation isn't yet properly established (so they don't yet know if she is reliable, a malingerer - and yes it's possible to pull the wool over gp's eyes, some conditions are very hard to definitively diagnose and some people are very good liars - I'm not saying op's friend is - what I'm saying is assuming she's not she needs to ensure nobody can accuse her of being, like the pp "busted" who was actually attending a medical appointment and getting prescription)

Talking to HR/boss is for her own protection.

Buy you're not obligated to work and in many places you're not obligated to keep in touch at all. It's not a cloak of invisibility but you don't have to be available to meet with your manager face to face. Half the time if you could do that you'd be in work.

Nobody's saying she's obligated to work. But (again HR types can correct) I think there's a reasonable expectation of behaving responsibly.

Im a manager - if going on a holiday is conducive to someones recovery then it is fine .

I’m a “HR type”. 🙄

YANBU. Seems like a good idea to suggest not posting pics on sm just to limit potential for issues. Unless her employers are aware that she is planning a holiday.

you don't have to be available to meet with your manager face to face

Actually, in the vast majority of companies (in my 18 year HR career) you do. It’s not the same as working, it can be a home visit or phone call, but you are expected to be in touch and to attend occ health or important meetings. If you don’t you can be sacked. It can and does happen.

Seems a good idea not to post holiday photos on social media, at least until you get back. Invitation to burglars otherwise.

Regardless of your health.

Agree with Bodicea. We’ve got someone off on long term sick atm. It’s costing us a lot and is hugely stressful for us. I would not be impressed if this person went on holiday and managed to cope with airports and all the hassle of travel but cannot somehow make it into work. Of course sometimes it will be relaxing but it doesn’t look right. The law may say it’s ok but a small employer doing their best by people would feel a bit hacked off I think. Perhaps you can get away with it in a big organisation but I wouldn’t do it.

@tittygolightly that might be the case in Wales. It’s not the case across the NHS as a whole. I am also NHS. Each Trust is different. It’s not covered by Agenda for Change.