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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

"Lorries are for boys"

83 replies

Ketayuzu · 10/04/2018 10:17

My 2.5yr old DD said that this morning while putting on her new top (covered in lorries, diggers and cranes). She'd only put it on when I pointed out the tractor (aparently tractors are different)
I don't know where it's come from- she loves lorries (we frequently are late for nursery when any lorry is loading or unloading near our house as she won't get in the car until its all finished. )
She loves dolls too and plays with them lots at nursery i know.
Apart from me and her dad she's only really left alone at nursery so it must have come from there. I don't want to be 'that mum' but should I mention it??

OP posts:

DixieFlatline · 10/04/2018 13:45

Good effort anyhow, Morphene. I quite like how Bubbles' question regarding our perception of gender-specific behaviour in animals could quite possibly be answered somewhat by your description of our perception of children's apparently different climbing abilities, but yes - that would require a bit more comprehension of that post and the ability to take a general idea and apply it to a slightly different context.

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2018 13:51

I have never ever heard a nursery worker saying things like "lorries are for boys." Seriously. It would be highly unusual.

She has picked up the idea either because another child has said it to her or because she has observed that boys are more likely to play with lorries and has decided to generalize, because small children tend to think in simple binaries.

MyRelationshipIsWeird · 10/04/2018 13:52

Play her the video of 'Long Distance Clara' from Pigeon Street! Hanuta, I just came on to say this! I used to love Pigeon Street as a kid and often had a romantic notion of becoming a lorry driver and travelling the world in my little cab.

I’d definitely say something to nursery. Doesn’t have to be serious or confrontational, just that it’s a shame that restriction based on gender is already in her little mind and that you’d appreciate them being aware of any talk that places limitations on what boys or girls can like or do.

antiAlias · 10/04/2018 13:52

@morphene

Are you saying that there are no differences in neonatal - or soon after birth - brains between the sexes?

MyRelationshipIsWeird · 10/04/2018 13:54

I used to drive buses and lorries for a living. A 5 year old on one of my school runs once informed me that "women are no good at driving". Hope you chucked him off the bus PellyBay!

yasmin0147 · 10/04/2018 13:55

It’s not a bad thing so why mention it?

BarbarianMum · 10/04/2018 13:57

What do you mean by "differences". Structural? Chemical? In function? In short very little study has been done in humans, there are are some differences but almost nothing is known about what they mean.

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2018 13:58

not to steer children towards certain types of toys and let them make their own choice.

Except that that will probably do nothing to make the OP's daughter less likely to conclude that lorries are for boys, because the boys will probably continue to choose lorries more often than dolls of their own free will.

yasmin0147 · 10/04/2018 13:59

Misread it didn’t realise it was a quote from your daughters mouth, I reckon one of the other children must have told her this then, you can’t censor what kids say to each other unfortunately, just remind her that everything is for everyone and girls can do anything they want.

antiAlias · 10/04/2018 14:04

@BarbarianMum

I meant all 3 but, to answer my own question, whilst studies are limited, the studies which have been performed show clear differences in all areas you mention.

Isn't the current working theory that these differences are due to the testosterone 'dump' at around 20 weeks gestation with the effects of testosterone on the brain and its cells and composition being clearly understood?

BubblesAndSquarks · 10/04/2018 14:11

@morphene not sure what Dixie is on about I've not commented on any other threads about gender

BarbarianMum · 10/04/2018 14:12

I think there is very little understanding of the link bw sexual variation in brain structures/neural composition and behaviours, esp at a young age when brain plasicity is so great. Bearing in mind there is great variation bw individuals also.

QueenOfAccidentalDeathStares · 10/04/2018 14:16

anyone else got thinking of clara the long-distance lorry driver?

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 10/04/2018 14:19

On these threads, it always comes up that pink used to be a boys' colour. It's not the only thing that made a sudden jump from the male sphere to the female sphere.

Consider knitting. How many men do you know who can knit? And yet, when there was money in knitting, because knitting clothing was the then apex of clothing production, guess who knitted?

Yeah. Men. It was a male profession. To become a professional expert knitter, you had to join a guild, and the guilds were exclusively male.

pitterpatterrain · 10/04/2018 14:22

So for those saying nursery workers don't perpetuate this, at my DD current pre-school I have had to raise why only the girls do tidy up time, and the boys are left to play...

antiAlias · 10/04/2018 14:23

@BarbarianMum

The physical differences in the brain in both neonatal and very young children are clear as are differences in behaviour but as yet we haven't proven the two are connected. Logic and other studies linking brain structure and activity and behaviour suggest that they are.

Of course it suits the agenda of some to vehemently deny that these could in any way be connected and it must be down to socialisation in the patriarchy!

Trinity66 · 10/04/2018 14:28

So for those saying nursery workers don't perpetuate this, at my DD current pre-school I have had to raise why only the girls do tidy up time, and the boys are left to play...

Are you fucking kidding???? I'd be raging, I don't think I could leave my child there after that

BarbarianMum · 10/04/2018 14:46

anti but the interest lies in determining which behaviours, esp as social conditioning is so utterly pervasive. The plasticity of the brain makes this very hard to determine because the neural tree florishes or is pruned depending on feedback.

As a zoologist I'm tempted to assume that there are more biases in behaviour due to sexual difference than some feminists wuld have us believe. But these are far less, and (imo) quite different, to those the patriachy would have us believe. And certainly don't correspond to liking a certain colour, or things with wheels, where would be the evolutionary sense be in that? A far better mechanism for survival would be the ability to adapt your behaviour to your environment, and mimic the behaviours you see in the social group around you.

pitterpatterrain · 10/04/2018 15:25

Trinity no I am not kidding, luckily the room lead gets it - this was someone in the team

Unfortunately it is the same mindset as "boys will be boys"- at a recent birthday party I saw 2-3 boys age 4 kicking and hitting each other, only the DF of one boy intervened to remove their child, not stop the fighting - if a group of pre-school girls did the same I am pretty sure they would all be brought in-line rapidly.

Same as during my DD swimming lessons, the boys splash and prat around - the teacher ignores it, my DD splashes once - they tell her to stop.

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 10/04/2018 15:28

I wish more HGV drivers would take their daughters out in the cab. The more women in the profession, the less piss in the lay-bys.

corythatwas · 10/04/2018 15:29

The only animals I have been in a position to observe closely over a long period of time are bristlenose catfish.

Which is why I decided to sod off to a place where I can't see my offspring and leave Father to deal with all the domestic stuff while I forget about their existence. It's what female animals do.

Haven't yet been able to establish their take on lorries and suspect they can't even distinguish pink.

Morphene · 10/04/2018 15:30

pitter I am literally begging you to tell me that's made up....I don't think I can cope with knowing the world is still that shit.

barbarian That is exactly where I am with this. It would be a bloody miracle if male and female babies brains were identical on average. Whatever differences there are will turn out to be 'on average' differences, not something that is common to all male an no female brains for instance. There will inevitably be massive overlaps in the populations....which will not lead to any possible conclusion that 99% of girls prefer pink and 1% of boys...(nb. only relevant in the current time period, the opposite 100 years ago).

There is however very strong evidence indeed that the large differences you see in the actual behaviour of boys and girls are down to socialization.

When people talk about structural and chemical differences in the brain leading to a preference for dolls and sparkles, I always think of the man who lived a totally normal uneventful life until one day he had a brain scan and it turned out his brain was all in a layer around the inside of his skull with a huge void in the middle.

Well that and anyone who has carried on their normal life while missing a huge chunk of brain.

Basically it should not be a surprise that there would be differences in male and female brains....and noone should be surprised that said differences add up to sweet FA when it comes to how said brains are used.

Morphene · 10/04/2018 15:34

pitter luckily the team leader gets it?

I know I should check my privilege and all...but sometimes it fucks me off so very much that literally nobody in this country would have the BAME kids tidy up while the white kids played....NOBODY.

In some ways, while its effects are arguably milder, sexism is still very much more socially acceptable than racism.

Trinity66 · 10/04/2018 15:36

*Trinity no I am not kidding, luckily the room lead gets it - this was someone in the team

Same as during my DD swimming lessons, the boys splash and prat around - the teacher ignores it, my DD splashes once - they tell her to stop.*

Yeah I never thought about it like that before (I mean right down to those most basic things) but I think you're definitely right about all that. Certainly the way they're/we're treated from such a young age must have massive effects on us all through life and how we carry on accepting how we're treated and how we treat others. I mean I had been thinking about it alot lately, I suppose because of all this talk about male and female brains and what it means to be a woman etc and I am definitely of the opinion that how I'm treated as a woman is a massive part of that, those examples are great though. I hope one day that peoples attitudes really change, I don't know if they ever will though, this stuff is deeply ingrained

BarbarianMum · 10/04/2018 15:37

When I took ds1 into his classroom, first day of reception, we were greeted by a big poster on the door saying "boy (noun) = noise + dirt".

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