Criticism of Israel and antisemitism

[psychomath]

This is not a TAAT - it's something I've been thinking about recently anyway with the accusations of antisemitism in the Labour party, and after reading this article in Spiked magazine. The thread about Israel killing a journalist reminded me that I'd been intending to post it, but it's not a response to that thread in particular or any posters in it. Just wanted to get that out of the way before anyone thinks I'm having a passive-aggressive go at them personally.

I do think there's a disproportionate focus among parts of the left on criticising the actions of the Israeli government compared to those of (other) oppressive regimes, both in the Middle East and across the world. I'm sure that the vast majority of individuals involved in this criticism are not remotely antisemitic, and in fact I'm not entirely convinced that antisemitism is the main root of the issue at all. On the other hand, it does seem like there's something strange going on in the wider picture.

It's a tricky issue to discuss because, obviously, criticism of Israeli foreign policy doesn't in itself make you antisemitic, and a lot of it is valid. In addition, everyone has their own particular areas of interest, and it would be ridiculous to require that people know about every single global conflict before being allowed to comment on the Israel-Palestine one specifically. It's also perfectly reasonable for people to want to be able to discuss Israel without others immediately jumping into the conversation to say 'why do you only ever talk about Israel and not Saudi Arabia/ISIS/whoever?' So no individual is doing anything inherently wrong by having these conversations, and in and of themselves they're good and important conversations to have.

However, if it were simply a case of people having different interests, you would expect to see a number of groups devoted to criticism of various regimes - some people would be interested in Israel, but there would be similar numbers whose biggest concern was the Saudi bombing of Yemen, or Turkish attacks on Kurdish regions of Syria. Instead, there's a huge amount of support among the left generally for the Palestinian cause - numerous student unions officially support BDS, for example, and Israeli Apartheid Week is often marked by events on campus - whereas there seems to be (comparatively) far less attention drawn to or even understanding of the other issues. Among the left-wing people I know personally, everyone has an opinion on the Israel-Palestine conflict, but very very few are even aware that there is a civil war in Yemen, never mind angry about the Saudi involvement in it and our own continuing ties with the Saudi government. That's anecdotal of course, but from reading left-wing pages and blogs it seems to be reflected in wider society as well.

So when people complain about 'whataboutery' in conversations about Israel, or how they should be able to discuss the actions of the Israeli government without being accused of antisemitism, I don't think they're entirely wrong to be annoyed by it. But at the same time, I think people need to understand that these conversations don't happen in a vacuum. When you're confronted by what feels like a constant steady drip of anti-Israel sentiment, and simultaneously see very little criticism of other countries' policies even when they're arguably as bad or worse, it's hard not to feel under fire sometimes. And because it's such a widespread and decentralised phenomenon, there's often no place to direct this frustration except (perhaps unfairly) at the individuals participating in these conversations. AIBU to see it this way?

Cuisant - I do wonder whether you are displaying your own media bias. There is plenty of coverage of the Yemen crisis and Saudi's role: The Guardian, CNN and Reuters just in the last 24hrs.

The ME crisis is like many other issues - you can discuss it in a way that is racist, or that isn't.

So if you say that you don't approve of the current Israeli govt's policy, that's fine. if you say that it is driven by an unquenchable thirst for blood, and that Israel is only not held to account because its supporters at Rothschilds and in the media prevent anyone from knowing, then you are using crude anti-semitic stereotypes. Even if you say you're only anti-Zionist, have loads of Jewish friends, etc.

Similarly, one can make a reasoned case about immigration, but if you start complaining about your local high street looking like a scene from the Zulu wars, or complaining about a smell of curry, then people are likely to conclude that you are a racist. Even if you say you're not....

Gnus - no, not really.

I was looking at the Independent on a particular day, and there were 4 articles on Israeli responses to Palestinians that left 9 Palestinians dead, that had occurred the previous week. There were zero articles on Yemen on that day.

I ran a similar check on the Guardian on a now-deleted thread. Again, on that day there were I think it was 7 articles negative of Israel on its website and zero on Yemen again.

I'm not saying that Yemen is never, ever mentioned. But it's very rare, and it is clear that the coverage of Israel is both vastly disproportionate to its actual importance (9 dead in Israel on one day versus 130 children dying every single day in Yemen), and overwhelmingly (entirely, in fact) negative. In the Guardian sample I did on I think it was on Saturday, even Iran and Saudi got only 1 article each devoted to them, compared to Israel's 7 (!), and both those single articles had a positive 'spin' as 'good news' stories. So no amounts of human rights abuses from other countries seem to affect that bias.

I strongly recommend reading this article:

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/why-do-you-hate-israel/21297

Horrific (especially the image), but necessary reading.

The West, quite frankly, has issues with Israel that it needs to sort out.

It has sweet FA to do with anything Israel actually does.

If you instinctively oppose Israel's every action or the existence of the State of Israel, you need to read that article.

Corbyn needs to read that article.

Most of the upper echelons of the Labour Party need to read that article.

It needs to be step 1 of their training in recognising unconscious anti-Semitism. ("Current examples of antisemitism within the Labour Party are not only a problem of a few, extreme ‘bad apples’ but also of unconscious bias which manifests itself in varied, nuanced and subtle ways and is more widespread in the Labour Party than many of us had understood even a few months ago." - labourlist.org/2018/04/accusations-of-antisemitism-should-not-be-dismissed-as-right-wing-smears-momentums-full-statement/ )

So how do you explain Jewish people who criticise Israel? Also anti- Semitic then?

As I've said, I don't think anyone here is saying that criticism of Israeli policy is in and of itself antisemitic. In fact, as I feel like I have to keep repeating myself, I'm going to say it in big letters so that anyone who disagrees can make themselves known:

CRITICISM OF ISRAELI POLICY IS NOT IN AND OF ITSELF ANTISEMITIC.

So no, Jewish people who criticise Israel are not antisemitic because they criticise Israel - in fact, they are one group where a disproportionate focus on that particular conflict is easily explained, for obvious reasons. However, the existence of Jews who criticise Israel doesn't automatically render accusations of antisemitism towards other critics of Israel invalid. That makes about as much sense as saying the US justice system can't suffer from institutional racism because there are black people who work in it.

A question for cuisant (or other knowledgeable posters on the thread): where do you recommend for less biased and more balanced / proportionate reporting on Israel and ME issues?

My default position has always been critical of some aspects of Israeli gvt policy. Probably as a result of being raised a guardian reader. But after reading this thread and some of the links posted I’d like to actively seek out some alternative views, so some recommendations of where to look would be great.

graysor - look at the haaretz website or timesofisrael. The former is the Israeli equivalent of the guardian. There's plenty of commentary and distrust of the current govt.

Graysor - the Ha'aretz newspaper (sort of the Israeli version of the Guardian) is good, although you can only read a few articles for free. There's also +972 magazine online, Israeli but very left-wing. I also follow B'Tselem on FB (Israeli human rights group) but the comments make me despair of humanity.

Fathom journal is broadly pro-Israel but also in favour of the two-state solution. For something lighter there's Naz Daily on YouTube.

There are also so many books...one I enjoyed and thought very balanced was The Lemon Tree by Sandy Tolan. Tom Segev goes into particular periods in great depth. Ari Shavit's My Promised Land also worth a read.

The Israel discussion does exist in a vaccum of sorts. The reason why people are so repulsed by Israel is because it is a hypocrisy. In the attempt to protect Jews from genocide and persecution they are guilty of ethnic cleansing. Yet they claim they can do no wrong. They claim to be enlightened yet they refuse to abide by international laws and behave like thugs. The accusations if antisemitism only Stoke the fire. You can critisise SA without being called and islamaphobe.you can critisise Russia without being called antiskavic. But the second you critisise the Israel it must be because you are antisemitic. I am not left wing for matter of record. I know many very right wing people. Without exception they are all very anti-israel. None of them are antisemitic.

DairyisClosed - I really recommend you read the link I posted above. Here it is again for your benefit. www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/why-do-you-hate-israel/21297

I'm sure you think you're being unbiased, you really do and mean well and everything. But you're not unbiased. The fact you are blithely unaware of your bias doesn't mean it's not there, or that it's excusable.

I found these comments you posted revealing: The reason why people are so repulsed by Israel is because it is a hypocrisy. In the attempt to protect Jews from genocide and persecution they are guilty of ethnic cleansing.

It's that idea - so seemingly logical yet so pernicious - that because Jews experienced the Holocaust that therefore if Israel as a Jewish State attacks others they are somehow worse than others because they ought to have known better. In other words, that a Jewish State should be expected to abide by a higher standard than, say their neighbours precisely because Jews were murdered in the Holocaust.

That assumption - that Israel should be held to a higher standard - is racist - not only towards Jews, but also in the Orientalist sense of low expectations of Israel's neighbours. I have lost count of the number of posts I have read where seemingly normal people claim that you really can't expect Saudi or Iran or even, indeed, the Palestinians to honour human rights, because...they don't claim to be Western. WTF! Universal human rights apply everywhere or they apply nowhere. If you care about human rights only as a stick with which to beat Israel, then, fundamentally, you don't care about human rights at all.

And indeed, the idea that the main lesson that people who survived the Holocaust would take away from that experience is to play nice with people who specifically state in their founding charter that they wish to murder all Jews is bizarre! That is exactly what Hamas state, so it is hardly surprising that Jews post-Holocaust have learnt the adage that 'when people tell you who they are, believe them'.

Jews learnt the hard way that if you don't stand up for your rights and fight back when you are attacked, people who say they want to murder you will do just that.

That doesn't excuse trigger-happy Israeli soldiers - of course not. It does mean that trying to reduce the conflict to Evil Israelis versus Perfect Palestinians gives you about as much of an understanding of the conflict as 1066 And All That gives you of history.

In general, Americans tend to have a self-centrist view of the world, and Muslism aren't a major day-to-day issue in their country. With the amount of Islamophobia present in the US (Islamophobic immirgration policies, assimilation rhetoric, etc...), you'll find that a lot of Americans don't see why Islamophobia is important.

But cross the border to Canada, or talk to Israelis/Indians in Europe or Australia, and you'll find that Islamophobia is more common among those people, due to day-to-day issues relating to Muslims.

I personally find that the left-wing can often stoke the issue and create problems by cherry picking racial stories and ignoring other racial stories. You have so many charities (supposedly neutral and helpful ones) going off against Trump without care about how many people agree with a certain number of his policies.

graysor - pleased that you're interested in examining the narrative.

I can honestly say I don't think I'd recommend any one particular site. Read a wide range from across the spectrum and read it critically. It's worth reading the Jewish news sites as others have said if you want to understand Jewish perspectives on this - Haaretz for a left-wing perspective, the JC say for a more standard read. I'm sure there are others I read but can't think of off the top of my head.

On Twitter, follow eg David Baddiel, Hadley Freeman and David Shneider for a left-wing and informed Jewish perspective. (Oh, and funny too! - David Baddiel had me literally LOL-ing not stop last week just as I was most in despair about the whole Labour anti-Semitism business.) They'll post links to a range of further relevant sources on the topic.

The danger of the media's hyperfocus on Israel is, of course, the “illusory truth effect,” that is, that the more often something is repeated, the more likely it is to be believed - regardless of whether there is any truth in it or not.

When you’re hearing something for the second or third time, your brain becomes faster to respond to it. “And your brain misattributes that fluency as a signal for it being true,” says Lisa Fazio, a psychologist who studies learning and memory at Vanderbilt University. The more you hear something, the more “you’ll have this gut-level feeling that maybe it’s true.”

www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/10/5/16410912/illusory-truth-fake-news-las-vegas-google-facebook

www.wired.com/2017/02/dont-believe-lies-just-people-repeat/