To be genuinely concerned about some of the older drivers on the road

[Melas]

I work at a hospital. Went to lunch today and was approached by a very confused elderly man who couldn’t find the clinic he needed for his wife. He was stooped over, had a tremor and was really frail. I pointed the clinic out three times and he was still confused so I walked him to the doors (he was shuffling) and then went to find a porter to help with his wife.

I came back from lunch and he was driving out of the car park with his wife. Car creeping along at 2mphs, he bumped over the pavement and on to the main road still at around 5-10mph as he went around the corner.

He could barely walk, how is he still driving safely? I do not condone drink driving at ALL but I could have a large glass of wine and be over the limit and I swear I would still be more responsive than he was.

We had an awful incident here a few years ago when an elderly man killed a 16 year old girl on her way to college. He’d had an accident a few days beforehand driving down the wrong side of the road but the police were unable to confiscate his licence (I think this may have changed by now).

Shouldn’t we be retesting at certain age by now? Even if it was 80 that would be something. I can’t stop thinking about this man driving around the roads still.

My mum is driving at 79 yo - up the M25. Great driver, fit and active. Acts years younger - never had an accident and has driven all over the UK and Ireland. Not many younger drivers can say the same.

Scabetty, my friend is 45 and she's a menace on the roads. I'm sure if she had to take a test now, she'd fail. She's had so many accidents, her insurance is over £1k each year!

I don't think anyone is saying that ALL old people are a danger on the roads, but it is how do we help those who are a danger and make it safer for everyone else.

It doesn't need to be a full-on retake of the driving test just a quick look to make sure that the person is physically and mentally capable of still driving.

That sounds entirely sensible - I had thought that it could be best done by a medical professional having access to a person's medical notes and able to do simple in-surgery checks of reaction time etc, but a mix of computer-based and small amount of driving tests would also be a good idea. Tbh, when I took a driving test in the US it was very much as you described, and all took place in quite a small complex, so something similar could well be possible.

Who is going to pay for these retests though? I'm 57, need to drive to work because I live where there is no public transport at all, but I'd struggle to pay for another driving test! And you're talking about retesting people who might be living on very restricted means - isn't there a danger they'll just skip the test and keep driving?

If you want retests then everyone should retest every 10 years. Keep those bad habits at bay and refresh highway code knowledge. I would agree to that as it isn’t ageist and addresses all bad drivers.

OP YDNBU my DM still drives at aged 81. She sticks to 25-30mph no matter which road and gets v stressed if she has people tailgating her on a national speed limit road . I had to take her keys off her recently when she was about to drive home after 4 large glasses of wine

There was a young girl where I am that was killed by an elderly driver on her way to/from college too. (Although it may be the same person).
I also remember being at work which was right next to a major a road. Blue lights going crazy. Turns out some older driver got confused and ended up driving down it the wrong way, past a few exits and DIDNT STOP until the police pulled them over .
My step grandad was as blind as a bat and an extremely bad driver. He managed to keep his licence after several accidents until he drove into a police car.

And you're talking about retesting people who might be living on very restricted means - isn't there a danger they'll just skip the test and keep driving?

Well, their driving license would obviously have expired, and they wouldn't be able to get insurance, and the DVLA would have written to them to forbid them from driving ... and they couldn't Road Tax or MOT a car. If they have car registered to them, then number plate recognition cameras could be programmed to report any use of their cars, and they would have to prove it wasn't them driving it...

Just join up the existing systems.

@WhatShallIDoWithMyself i think you live in the same town as me. How on earth he managed that ill never know

cantkeepaway - you mean like all those uninsured, never passed a test, don't have a licence drivers who currently drive our roads? They don't all get caught...

Zaphod,

I know, but it does always seem to me that we could do better at detecting them if we joined together all the information that is held. (Especially as an older person who has not renewed their license would be 'known to the system' in a way that a driver who had never been licensed would not)

I mean, it would seem to me to be entirely possible, using different datasets already held, to circulate to all police forces all drivers who have not renewed their licenses, their last known addresses, and the details of any vehicles registered to them - and, for example, all car parks etc using number plate recognition to be programmed to alert police to any detection of any of those cars.

I worry about younger drivers, distracted drivers, salesmen doing too many hrs, people driving home after long tiring work shifts, people with anger management issues, mental health problems, drug issues, drink issues and more - a few oldies in that mix whose minds are all there but physically a bit frail are just part of that mix to be honest

My gran is one of those 60+ who shouldn’t be driving and not for a long time. Insurance doesn’t matter as it’s provided via the mobility scheme. She can’t bloody see properly. She drove into the rear side of a stationary lorry on a roundabout because she didn’t see it. She’s driven into train barriers and all sorts because she didn’t but see them but she’s still allowed on the roads. She’s even said she shouldn’t be driving but won’t atop. It’s not about age as such but declining heath/awareness etc that comes with age.

I despair generally at the standard of driving from all ages, indicating on roundabouts seems to be an optional extra or just indicate right and then come off the roundabout without changing to a left indication.
Using mirrors before indicating and pulling out seems to be rare and seems to be a problem that covers all ages.
I'm not sure re testing with the complete test would be feasible but a short assessment testing reactions and observational skills, use of mirrors, indicating etc would help if done every five-ten years across the board regardless of age.
Some of the worst driving I see is outside schools at drop off times.

I remember, when I was learning to drive, that I read somewhere that drivers should be patient with elderly drivers as their reactions are slower than someone younger. I also remember reading that drinking alcohol before driving slows reaction time. Even at the tender age of 17 I thought it so strange that one should invoke patience in other road users and the other is illegal when they both can have the same results.

If people were tested every ten years and i was found not suitable for driving any more, i wouldn't want to drive whatever age i was. Not if i knew i was at greater risk of killing someone.

I would like to see a breathalyser-style immobiliser, but that requires a current active driving license card to be inserted to allow the car to start.
That way, everyone is either driving with an active UK license, or has had to make an effort to get a fake one and is therefore knowingly committing a crime. The stories of "their license was revoked under medical grounds but they just kept driving anyway" are really concerning.

To be honest though, I'm expecting and hoping that driverless cars will be in place before that which will go a long way to sorting this problem.

I think if you’ve got an ancient relative who you know us a liability you should take their keys away.

Retesting every 10 years generally is a good idea

Elderly uncle has diagnosed dementia and reduced spatial awareness, but was VERY resistent to giving up his driving licence. Even after clipping other parked cars wing mirrors because he couldnt judge distances. He would get lost and not be able to work out how to get home. I spoke to his GP who was happy for him to keep driving despite what i told her. When his licence came up for review (90th birthday) i wrote and told them it should not be renewed and they wrote to him and cancelled it. Dementia consultant confirmed he shld not drive. DUnc still got the crank with me but im glad i did it has he was so unsafe.

"Yes retest at 60, 65,70,75,80 every 5 years infact!"

Ridiculous to include those in their 60s in this.

I'd not be against retesting every 10 years for everyone - driving standards change massively over time. For example, the new "smart" motorways are increasing in the number and they didn't exist when I started to drive relatively recently - just driving on them shows that a lot of people think that sitting in the "middle" now read third lane is correct driving when it absolutely isn't. Plus the number of people who pick up bad habits, and as PPs pointed out a reckless regard for basics such as indicating, checking mirrors.

My gran always would often say of her elderly friends who persisted in driving past their natural ability to do so safely, that they would all claim to have never had an accident... but she would add "had doubtless seen thousands".

Simply relying upon other drivers to take evasive action in the face of someone's inability to see properly, react in a proper timeframe, or generally be aware of their surroundings is not really acceptable. But it does seem to happen a fair bit, especially in rural areas, and is not a new phenomenon. And of course isn't captured as a statistic by insurance companies if the elderly driver's vehicle or person hasn't been harmed in the process.

If there is one thing that so many of these tales of obstinate family members shows, it's that by the time someone is no longer able to drive safely, they're also not able to recognise this. So for that reason, some form of formalised process to test faculties needs to be introduced, possibly at 71, when drivers first need to renew their test, and then at intervals thereafter. Self-certification clearly isn't enough.

I don't think it's ageist to suggest this. There are plenty of mechanisms in place to deal with younger drivers already, and I don't think there is any harm to acknowledging when at the other end of our driving lives, we might need help to recognise when it's time to stop.