To be really really struggling with bedtime?

[Serena1985]

Three year old DD. Angel through the day. Fucking Damien at night time.

When she was in her cot, I could pop her down with her snuggly and off to sleep she would go. About six months ago we moved her into a single bed in her new bedroom and bedtime has been carnage ever since.

One of us needs to lie beside her until she falls asleep, or she simply won’t stay in bed. She will talk, laugh, move around, tantrum etc for fucking hours before finally giving up and going to sleep. She doesn’t nap in the day at all and she is exhausted by 7pm. But it doesn’t matter how tired she is. She is utterly bloody minded about it.

I can’t take it any more. I can’t lie there until sometimes eleven o’clock any more. I end up losing the rag with her. We get on like an absolute house on fire during the day but I am exhausted and stressed by the time bedtime comes (also have an eight month old) with a big list of jobs and my stress levels just climb and climb and we keep falling out. I’m genuinely worried it’s damaginf our relationship.

I can’t do it any more.

New bed and bedroom will be hard for her. She's probably got used to you being there too and knows by playing up you'll stay which will be comforting to her in a new surrounding.
Does she have a bed guard? That might give her a 'side' like a cot and make her feel more secure. Did she choose her bedding? When we moved DD into a toddler bed we made a big thing about going in her 'big girl Peppa bed'
I feel for you, it must be so hard. Would she sleep if she went to grannys for a sleepover you think? It might break the cycle of you having to lay with her plus you get some rest.

It’s not new any more though. Her room has been done up exactly to her taste - pink fluffy princess Skye/Everest girly nonsense (actually I love it and I wish it was mine).

She has a bed guard and she picked out her Paw Patrol bedding and she has two nightlights and accessible bookshelves. She is just being naughty because she doesn’t like to miss out.

It’s all a big game to her. I’ve tried the constant returning to bed and it doesn’t work. I’ve returned her to bed like 60 times in one night and she thought it was all hilarious. I was in tears at the end of it.

Whether you stay or leave and return, I suggest absolutely NO attention. I used to not look at them, not talk, keep a poker straight face. That bores some of them eventually. For my youngest, the toughest one, I would lie next to him reading a book with no conversation. He rebelled but he didn't last awake more than 30 minutes , because he got neither negative or positive attention.

I presume you have a routine, teeth, pyjamas, story etc. Same every night, no changes. Then, if you really think it is because she feels she is missing out, after putting her to bed, turn off the lights, tv, in the house and sit in silence. Even go to bed yourselves. If she gets up (where does she go? Stairgate? Your room? Sitting room?) she'll learn that she isn't missing out on anything.

Haven't had this myself (yet) but this worked for a friend of mine.

You have described my 7 year old at this age. You deserve all the medals in the world.

So firstly: cut yourself some slack and well done for not throwing yourself out of a window. The bed time fuckery is the very worst kind of torture. Esp when you have another child (or you know, stuff to do, or just a quiet hour).

You could try the stealth withdrawal. Over the course of a few weeks I moved from the floor, to a chair in his room to outside his room to being next door in our room. It took a few weeks, and a reward chart may have been involved, but it did at least change the scene. Lying on the floor would make me weep, but at least the chair/next door gave me options. And hope. And it did eventually work. I was still there, but a little bit further away each time.

The other advice that helped me was 'no audience, no performance.' So keep all communication to a minimum. You will no doubt get eleventy trillion 'mummy, are you there?' but try and answer with 'shhh, goodnight.' I won't tell you what I was replying in my head.

The return to bed thing was one of the worst nights of my life, I lost count at 80. I remember tearing his Fireman Sam posters off the wall in a fit of exhausted rage.

DM me if you want to, I really went through hell with sleep/bedtimes/4am wakings, and I know how soul destroying it can be. Esp when you have tried EVERYTHING and no joy.

Take care.

For the first month in a bed I’d have to take her back to bed for 2 hours a night- no expression or interaction- then she got the idea there was no point in keeping coming out. But I was lucky as she was 5metrws down hall on a ground floor flat. In a house I’d resort to bribery to win!!

The only thing we were able to do to stop DS wanting us beside him until he slept was to play audio CD's. I did a gradual retreat alongside it and it worked really well. He felt like he had company and just listened until he fell asleep.

Earlier bedtime - try it

If she’s just dropped her nap try her with a 6pm bedtime or 630pm - basically as early as you can

Mine was like this - he did eventually sleep on his own! I used to sit or lie with him but I tended to stick to whatever would take the shortest time and if he didn't cooperate then I'd go. Then he'd kick off of course but I eventually discovered that the magic phrase was no, youve used your chances for tonight, we can try again tomorrow.

Stair gate on the door??

We had exactly this, tantrums every night for 90 mins

Out of desperate my DH just shut her in her room for a few mins when she was mid tantrum. She freaked out but then quickly got into bed at which point he returned

This was 3 months ago and she has been a delight since then at bedtime

Good luck, it's breaking isn't it

I should add, if she does play up, we threaten to shut her in again which has worked a treat

Audio CDs for mine here. Also a bit of gradual retreat helped- mummy's just got to pop and check something, go for a wee, get a glass of water...Staying away a bit longer and longer each time calling from other room. Often caveated by mummy won't come back in the room if you get out of bed. We also at one point put stairgate on bedroom door to keep in and now threaten to put it back on if he does not behave...star charts...

We have recently had loads of trouble with my dd(5). We have a routine that finally works (for now at least) we got a CD player and some story CDS and after normal story time (she has her story lying in her bed) the light goes out and just a night light stays on, we put her CD player on fairly low volume and she falls asleep listening to that. 9 times out of ten she falls asleep but if she doesn't she knows how to put it on and she will play it again herself.

We also have recently had a baby. I am sure its's no coincidence as she had been getting gradually better. At 3 she was a nightmare too running up and down the landing, calling us for this and that, getting out of bed and getting her toys out, even coming downstairs. It was so stressful and really took its toll on our marriage as evenings were our only time together and they were so strained.

Op it’s bloody hard so well done you.

Tea bath story bed. We left story tapes for ours? Or what the equivalent is now.

We hsd 6 kids and some pushed the boundaries and some didn’t but their behaviour is irrelevant it’s your reaction that matters.

So stick to the routine and go up if needed but no messing no protraction or conversation just ‘it’s bed time night night’ over and over again.

Keep your temper and keep it super calm and almost boring. Don’t ever give in and she will get it. Honestly but you have to be consistent

I don't think it's a coincidence that this started just after you'd had the baby. I remember how old my dc1 seemed as soon as I'd had dc2 - and I'd been carrying him round on my hip only weeks earlier (2.7yr difference)!

She might respond to being babied for a while. Do you have a bedtime routine? Is your youngest needing lots of input at that time? You said it's dd not wanting to miss out and you're spot on I expect! Could you have dc2 in a dark quiet room so dd sees nothing exciting is going on? Even if you then have to take the baby downstairs afterwards!

We moved ds into a bed at 22mo and then had 6 months of awful bedtimes. Rapid return was useless and shutting his door resulted in him trashing his room. I can't actually remember what helped but slowly things improved. Then dd was born . He regressed for a bit but nothing like before.

it's awful but it does end. This too shall pass.

Go down stairs lights off telly off sit in silence. If she comes down she can't see. Put her back in bed in silence in low light. Keep doing it she will get the message

and sympathy from me.

I've just got out of dd2's room. She's exactly like you describe your dd, I get exactly how you are feeling I could quite happily throw her out the window by the end of it. The only thing that keeps me going is that it will pass eventually, well I'd better not be doing it when she's 18!

Samuel L Jackson's version of go the fuck to sleep makes me smile.

Can’t sgree with you there Spoog adults should show children they they have a life while children are in bed and have every right to watch the tv etc while kids do as they are told and go to bed.

Message being mum and dad are in charge and equally have a life and down time after kids in bed

And remember sweet revenge as you vaccume at 1pm while teenagers still asleep and hung over!

No attention at all. Just leave her to run about and tantrum until she falls asleep.
Know it seems harsh and will be very hard for the first few nights but honestly completely ignoring her after you have done all her bedtime routine, is the way forward here.
It will not be as 'fun' for her to stay awake if she is getting absolutely no emotional reaction from it.
Good luck

Oh God I feel your pain! DD ( now 9) is incredibly strong willed but we did eventually win the bedtime battle! We did the Supernanny thing which is “ Bedtime Darling” the first time they come out, “ Bedtime” the 2nd time then just keep putting them back. Honestly, the frustration! It got to over 100 times more than once! But it did work.

Sounds utterly grim, OP

I agree with the poster upthread re trying an earlier bedtime. When my 3yo dropped her nap she was shattered and we had to put her to bed at 6.15pm, otherwise she became overtired and would tantrum, mess around, keep calling us back in the room etc for AGES. Especially if she’s at nursery or preschool, which I think seems to tire them out way more than pottering around at home. Good luck!

We've just started using "get out of bed free" cards with DS. He gets three cards at bedtime and each is good for one trip out of bed for a drink/a faff about (aka, "bedtime avoidance pretend wee") in the loo/five minutes more chat (timed)/a question. When he uses a card we have to go with it, no blocking him from using it, but once all three cards are gone they are gone and he must stay in bed. As well as being good for one get of bed free trip, the cards are also good for ten minutes of iPad time per card (or reward of your choice) if they aren't used for getting out of bed. He can hand over unused cards the next morning and we will give him the iPad for the alloted time.

We had lots of messing about the first few nights - using his cards one after the other and then shouting for more, ignoring the fact that there were no cards left (we ignored his antics and silently returned him to bed), that sort of thing. Then we had a few nights of him making a big smug show of using each card with this (frankly hilarious) triumphant look on his face each time as if to say "I'm getting a drink, go ahead and try stop me!". And now, two weeks in, we have a situation where he uses one or two cards and keeps hold of one or two cards in order to get his reward next day. I'm hopeful that in another couple of weeks we might be in a position where he keeps hold of all three and stays in bed all night. He's 4yo so I don't know if your DD is a little young, it would depend on how good her understanding is, but if you think she'd grasp the cards vs rewards then I'd recommend giving it a go.

motherforking that is genius - I love it! I might steal it for dd (it would go straight over ds head)

Easter Bunny only came for 8 year old and not 6 year old in our House as EB was not impressed with bedtime behaviour. It really had got awful with spitting and slapping and allsorts. EB has been prepared to hop back though and leave one clue a night if bedtime okay and general behaviour good. EB isn't coming tonight. Wish me luck in the morning.

It had worked up till tonight. Frustrating thing is that it wasn't me doing bedtime and husband gave up and said EB wasn't coming about an hour before bedtime. Funnily enough DD gave up trying to keep her temper as her Dad had frustrated her!!