It appears there is a class system in Northern Ireland? Or AIBU?

[AngelL7]

Ok so this is just very light hearted but I’m just curious to other people’s opinions on this as this is whole new concept to me, lol. (Maybe I’m just incredibly green)

Until a few weeks ago I thought there wasnt really a class system in Northern Ireland, that reguardless of wealth / occupation / education we all were the same. In the aftermath of this Ulster Rugby rape trial it appears there is a whole secret elite class of people in Belfast that I didn’t know about! (It’s been reported that all involved in the case were from affluent families that went to private schools, they all talk without an accent, socialise exclusively with each other etc - I wasn’t even aware there were private schools here)

So anyway, today I was speaking with a friend about a career opportunity that I am qualified for but passed up on & the possibility of going back. Without giving too much away this career would definitely be considered prestigious. My friend said there would be no point as the only people who succeed at it are from at least middle class families with links to the industry. My friend is probably right as he works in a similar field and it wasn’t said in a mean way. It was just a frank conversation.

So my question is - what are the differences between the classes? What defines it? Does it come from family history, or each prrsons’s indiviual money / job / Education?

I think I would be working class (sounds so weird saying that), clearly my friend thinks so too 😂😂.

I’m from a poor, catholic, farming background. But my parents had a rags to Riches story and are now millionaires. (I’m most certainly not but in the future I probably will be). I talk with a broad accent (you can probably tell by my style of writing) but I’m well educated, I went to a prestigious school and got there by sitting an enterance exam and have under & post graduate degrees in this career. Obviously I don’t work in this field at all but I have my own businesss. I live in a rural area far from Belfast.

So am I right in thinking I’m ‘working class?’ And if so it seems to be something you are born into?

From NI, most people i know seem to be on a similar background/wage. I don't know anyone privately educated. I went to grammar school, dropped out of uni and work in a family business. We are not well off but confortable

Hmm I have noticed recently that some of the parents at dd1s school do seem to look down on others probably us. We live rurally but reasonably near to 2 large towns (if that makes sense) and keep out of the way (farmers) but have got friendly with dds best friends parents (her df also from a farming background) and hearing what they say some of the other parents discuss had me really
Also made me realise we are definitely the poor relations!

There most definitely is a class system in NI, yes. Though it's not as pronounced as in the rest of the UK. The upper middle classes that you mention (Methody/Inst types) are concentrated in the Belfast/Bangor areas, it's not that widespread across the rest of the province. There are even a few aristos dotted around.

However, I think the widespread grammar school system (and the good schooling generally) means that there's much more social mobility in NI than elsewhere. There's also less overt reference to class in day to day life - and this is true of ROI too.

I'm not sure I have the strength to get into the 'what constitutes middle class' debate yet again here on Mumsnet.

Some of the class crap written around this trial is hysterical. AFAIK Paddy Jackson went to Methody and Stuart Olding went to BRA, they're both Belfast Grammar Schools. There's certainly a "voluntary" contribution of fees, for BRA it's £44 per month. That wouldn't class it as being a private school by any stretch of my imagination.
There are definitely people in Belfast who may see themselves as some kind of social elite, same as people in Dublin with a D4 postcode perhaps, but clearly it's all going over my head

There's also less overt reference to class in day to day life - and this is true of ROI too.

agree with this, obviously every country has people who are richer and poorer etc but it does seem to be much more focused on in England (just going from stuff I read on here and other forums) I see with Britain's two main parties there seems to be a left party and a right party which really seems to emphasis this class divide aswell whereas in the ROI our two main parties are both quite centre (and tbf may as well be the same party but anyway!)

So am I right in thinking I’m ‘working class?’ And if so it seems to be something you are born into?

In NI terms, you sound like a typical grammar-school-educated middle class type. It's not at all unusual for this class to come from a farming background and speak with a strong accent.

However, more generally, the traditional definition of working class has pretty much broken down, so I don't know where that leaves the overall classification.

@shoofly I had been speaking to a man from Belfast, he went to Methody, he said it was £2k - £3k a year for there? I obviously wouldn’t know but that what he told me ...unless the elite are partial to exaggeration 😋 Although I know it’s nothing like what would be paid in England.

My school asked for a voluntary £60 donation a year from each family if it could be afforded.

I don't think the class stuff is very pronounced here. However, as NI is so small there is a bit of a 'not what you know but who you know' element. I think your friend might mean you're less likely to get a job role not because of your 'class' exactly but because of contacts you might not have if you haven't been seen in the right places or with the right people. I know this happens everywhere to an extent but I lived away for a long time and have noticed it more since I came back.

Paddy Jackson went to Methody and Stuart Olding went to BRA, they're both Belfast Grammar Schools. There's certainly a "voluntary" contribution of fees, for BRA it's £44 per month. That wouldn't class it as being a private school by any stretch of my imagination.

Those schools do have more social cache than regular grammar schools though. And they probably would help your application to a biggish law firm or similar.

But they are much more affordable/accessible than GB equivalents, agreed. As is the case in the Republic. A good private secondary for DS will set us back about €6,000 a year here, which is peanuts compared to Eton or something.

There will always be a sort of an upper class everywhere, ROI and NI including. However, the society in Ireland is much flatter. I shudder when I read some threads from England where class seems to determine everything about you.

Have a friend whose daughter goes to Methody, I can ask her AngelL7 it sounds to me like a huge exaggeration , as for the social cachet of BRA, hmmm.... my husband's slightly snooty aunt was horrified that DS1 wanted to go there. Belfast High School "attracts a nicer class of child" , according to her...

I shudder when I read some threads from England where class seems to determine everything about you.

Yeah, I think the weirdest thing is how people sometimes don't socialise (or even interact) outside of their own class, which is definitely not the case in Ireland.

I went to Trinity and did a course that gets a lot of public school educated English oxbridge rejects. They never talked to the rest of us!
Totally bizarre.

There was a thread recently where someone said NI grammar school uniforms can cost £1000. I imagine that would put some people off applying

I am wondering if they mean prep school not grammar so Fullerton House Inchmarlo and Ben Madigan (the preps of Methodist College, Inst and BRA) are all around £3.5k per annum?

Is it really as much as a grand? I remember about £200 in the 90s, so I guess that could be equivalent.

Fairly criminal as there's no need for it and the uniforms are, without exception, horrific.

I always thought there was just as much of a class system in NI as there was anywhere else in the UK [shrug]. From the Holywood, Co Down jokes to the creche/ crash jokes about the Malone Road accent. Methody had a bit of a rich but thick reputation when I was growing up but that was over 30 years ago.

One of my kids goes to a grammar school. Her uniform cost us £200 (actual uniform and PE uniform). We pay £80 a year as her voluntary fees.

It's the sports kit that's expensive tbh. Why they need kukri kit with a £48 rugby shirt I'll never know. I had a panic handing over almost £200 for sports kit (without rugby boots, hockey sticks, swim gear) After that £80 for a blazer seemed reasonable.
Those fees seem much more like prep fees right enough.

Agree with the sports kit why Kukri? My boys grammar school is an eye watering £240 pe kit plus two pairs of trainers each and £400 a year each in "voluntary" contributions - madness
What's wrong with a wee pair of shorts, t shirt and a pair of gutties

There’s a class system everywhere. It may be based on money or on being in the Ruling Party but it’s always there.

I think my uniform was maybe around the £200/£300 Mark in the late 90s, my siblings didn’t go to a grammar but I think it was similar price? ....well I never heard my parents say anyway

That's wild - in my daughter's school - the PE uniform is a top, shorts, socks. Any trainers as long as they're dark colours. You can buy a hoodie/half zip but it's not compulsory and we don't pay for any equipment. Swimming costume is just a swimming costume from Sports Direct or Decathalon.

If you’re the child of millionaires, I’d call you upper middle class at the lowest! From my point of view, millionaires are not working class, even if they work incredibly hard. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe I’m very ‘black or white with no shades of grey’
Does class matter anymore? I didn’t think it did.

my siblings didn’t go to a grammar but I think it was similar price? ....well I never heard my parents say anyway

That's a good point. Non grammar school uniforms wouldn't be notably cheaper (though there might be less in the way of schmanzy sports gear). I've never come across a NI family that declined a grammar school place on the grounds of cost.

I'm not from NI but I did use to live there. A friend's dad was a teacher at Methody and I'm pretty sure it is just the same kind of grammar as any other in NI, ie. voluntary fees of a few hundred a year. Overseas students, I believe, pay similar fees to English private schools.

I do think that the grammar school system has made the class system less pronounced in NI, but then I lived in Bangor and there were definitely people there who thought that they were a higher class of person than those across the Lough in Carrickfergus, for example. They definitely enjoyed their reputation as the "tray bake county."

I used to work in a posh shop on the Upper Lisburn Road...there was definitely a hierarchy even amongst the rich/posh/socialites etc. My boss was a complete vulture, knew who was who and who wasn't 'somebody' enough to put in effort with.
It was pretty horrible. But the nouveau BT9ers accent is always easy to spot ;)