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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

It appears there is a class system in Northern Ireland? Or AIBU?

54 replies

AngelL7 · 04/04/2018 13:14

Ok so this is just very light hearted but I’m just curious to other people’s opinions on this as this is whole new concept to me, lol. (Maybe I’m just incredibly green)

Until a few weeks ago I thought there wasnt really a class system in Northern Ireland, that reguardless of wealth / occupation / education we all were the same. In the aftermath of this Ulster Rugby rape trial it appears there is a whole secret elite class of people in Belfast that I didn’t know about! (It’s been reported that all involved in the case were from affluent families that went to private schools, they all talk without an accent, socialise exclusively with each other etc - I wasn’t even aware there were private schools here)

So anyway, today I was speaking with a friend about a career opportunity that I am qualified for but passed up on & the possibility of going back. Without giving too much away this career would definitely be considered prestigious. My friend said there would be no point as the only people who succeed at it are from at least middle class families with links to the industry. My friend is probably right as he works in a similar field and it wasn’t said in a mean way. It was just a frank conversation.

So my question is - what are the differences between the classes? What defines it? Does it come from family history, or each prrsons’s indiviual money / job / Education?

I think I would be working class (sounds so weird saying that), clearly my friend thinks so too 😂😂.

I’m from a poor, catholic, farming background. But my parents had a rags to Riches story and are now millionaires. (I’m most certainly not but in the future I probably will be). I talk with a broad accent (you can probably tell by my style of writing) but I’m well educated, I went to a prestigious school and got there by sitting an enterance exam and have under & post graduate degrees in this career. Obviously I don’t work in this field at all but I have my own businesss. I live in a rural area far from Belfast.

So am I right in thinking I’m ‘working class?’ And if so it seems to be something you are born into?

OP posts:
summacummamumma · 04/04/2018 14:37

I did not grow up in Belfast but on the coast. I went to an all girls grammar that if it was located in England would have cost a fortune to go to. I guess I would be one of the upper middle class, but again not by normal UK standards. I left Ni at 18 and have never contemplated moving back because of the 'everyone knows everyone' bubble. It is like the whole country has a small town, know each other's business mentality (at least that is how it felt to me), and I haven't seen any change in recent years. My friends and I would always ask what school someone went to because it would be likely we would have someone in common. It is more likely in the boys school because of the rugby culture...I went to a girls school but my bro went to one of the boys grammars and played rugby so have seen it over and over again. The 'boys club' is alive a kicking in a big way...

So there def is a class structure in NI but it is a weird one and quite different to the mainland.

mollymoo0 · 04/04/2018 14:40

I have grown up in Belfast and now have a dc who is 3.5 years old. Me and dp come from working class backgrounds with no spare cash at all for luxuries although our parents tried their best.

We made the decision to move out of that area and into a better more middle class area really as we want to break the mould and give our young generation the chance at bettering their life.

The area I used to love children are out playing in he street from 5 years old onwards then get into antisocial behaviour etc etc. Lots of suicides, drugs and low employment rates.

Me and my dp have retrained twice in new careers which involved moves to England and back to complete in order to ensure that we are doing the best we can for our children. I am in the middle of retraining so this is my 2nd degree but will set me up for life because we refuse to settle and always want to improve ourselves.

If we can't afford a private school by the time our child is a teenager then we will be sending her to one.

mollymoo0 · 04/04/2018 14:41

*can

Original poster
AngelL7 · 04/04/2018 14:49

Of course it doesn’t really matter at all, i guess I was just taken by surprise when confronted with the truth that I would never make it in this particular industry because of my roots.

Where I live it would be an insult to be referred to as posh or as higher class. But then I live in what they refer to as bandit country lol.

My DF went into a car showroom on the Boucher Rd to buy a nice car - because he was dressed in his work clothes every salesman ignored him & he ended up walking out without buying a car from there - so i guess we all just have those normal people (working class) vibes lol

OP posts:
fermerswife · 04/04/2018 14:53

There is definately a class system in NI but I would say it is concentrated around the Belfast/Bangor area. I live on the North Coast and you can definately tell when the Belfast holiday homers roll into town and the hipster coffee shops 😂

mollymoo0 · 04/04/2018 14:58

@AngelL7 I can't stand those car show room men they think they are above everyone else. I always said if I won the lottery I would go into bmw or Mercedes dressed scruffy and if they acted strange then I'd tell them exactly what they just lost.

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 04/04/2018 14:59

Of course there is a class system in NI. It exists within the grammar school systems as well. Portballintrae vs Portrush, old money vs the new money post GFA, I could go on. And like summacummamumma there is no way I will move back for identical reasons.

TheGruffalosArse · 04/04/2018 14:59

I think most of us are fairly equal although you have got the 'Millie's and spides' or whatever they're called now and the people we all like to laugh at because they think they're high society when in reality they just own a bar or clothes shop or something. You'd certainly be a fool to assume how much money someone has in the bank based on what school they went to or what they're wearing over here.

Is your profession something like teaching where it's about who you know, and if you've been out of the schools for a while you won't get back in?

Original poster
AngelL7 · 04/04/2018 15:09

@thegruffalosarse no it’s not like leaving teaching & going back, I haven’t actually worked in this field despite my degree being in it. But it’s also a fairly male dominated area which also isn’t my favour either 🙈

OP posts:
harrietm87 · 04/04/2018 15:24

I went to methody (fairly!) recently.
It's a grammar school, not a private school. Like all grammar schools in NI there was a voluntary contribution of something like £100-200 per year. I had a single mum who couldn't afford it so we didn't pay. Uniform could be pricey but we got it second hand. It's nothing like the English private schools (DH went to one).

In answer to your question, a lot of my year were middle class, from south Belfast, or parents were academics at queens. But others were like me - working class, poor families who were lucky enough to get an A in the 11+. I'm catholic btw - about 40% of the intake was.

YourWanMajella · 04/04/2018 15:30

Until a few weeks ago I thought there wasnt really a class system in Northern Ireland, that reguardless of wealth / occupation / education we all were the same

How can anyone possibly have been that incredibly naive?

LaurieMarlow · 04/04/2018 15:51

How can anyone possibly have been that incredibly naive?

I don't think it's necessarily that naive, given where she comes from and her limited exposure to Belfast/North Down where most of this stuff plays out.

I know the area she's from pretty well. People there have little tolerance for airs and graces so I can see how class related one upmanship doesn't get much airtime. Most people are from similar cultural backgrounds, though obviously some will be richer than others.

YourWanMajella · 04/04/2018 15:53

But you don't only know about the town you live in, do you?

AgnesBrownsCat · 04/04/2018 23:10

There’s a money divide more than a class divide in Northern Ireland . Anyone can attend a grammar school if they get the grades . The only private school in Northern Ireland is Rockport .

Farmers here own their own land thanks to the land act of 1885. That’s the main difference between here and the UK .
That’s assuming that by upper class you mean the landed gentry . We do still have a few of those pottering about but our schools are rarely good enough for them post primary .

MrsRyanGosling15 · 04/04/2018 23:17

Barrister by any chance?

nightshade · 04/04/2018 23:23

Ahhhh. ..but someone still knows their mammies and grannies!!

VetOnCall · 04/04/2018 23:33

I did not grow up in Belfast but on the coast. I went to an all girls grammar that if it was located in England would have cost a fortune to go to. I guess I would be one of the upper middle class, but again not by normal UK standards. I left Ni at 18 and have never contemplated moving back because of the 'everyone knows everyone' bubble.

summa are you me?! I think we might have gone to the same school Smile

AgnesBrownsCat · 04/04/2018 23:44

Trout - what you’re describing is snobbery and nothing remotely to do with class .
If it is law and being a barrister in particular then please don’t let someone’s comments put you off . The barrister I know is married to the local butcher .

Original poster
AngelL7 · 04/04/2018 23:50

@mrsryangosling bingo 👍🏻

OP posts:
Allthewaves · 04/04/2018 23:50

There's def more of a cash vibe than class vibe about northern ireland. It has huge problems but I do like the fact if your bright you can get a steller education through grammer system though imo high schools need more money and a compete overhaul to give everyone a chance.

BerylStreep · 04/04/2018 23:51

I think there is a lot of new money knocking about Belfast and North Down at the moment. Lots of Maseratis in the school car park. I know with at least one of the families it is paramilitary / drugs money, and the fancy cars and flash houses aren't fooling anyone.

SpidersWilliesOnYourFrillys · 05/04/2018 00:09

Angell7 I too have lived in the bandit country and yes they would take offence at being seen as posh or stuck up should I say lol, if you go further into town though you’d been seen as ‘posh’ by half of the people in it just because of where you live because of farming, in the country, not on one of the housing estates. NI has a crazy class system.

TheCraicDealer · 05/04/2018 00:13

as for the social cachet of BRA, hmmm.... my husband's slightly snooty aunt was horrified that DS1 wanted to go there. Belfast High School "attracts a nicer class of child" , according to her...

I think BRA is (at least it was c.10 years ago) is quietly proud of the nature of its intake. Lots of pupils from low income families, pretty much now 50:50 Catholic/Protestant and most importantly it gives kids a chance. I remember our politics teacher who was a form master saying that they'd always do their best to give pupils second chances. That's why you never heard of people not getting back in after GCSEs or AS Levels because of their grades like Methody, not unless they were real bad eggs. I think the only one they didn't let back in our year was the girl who tried to set the loos on fire. But they still let her do her exams! It's also the only school in Ireland to have a armed uprising so I suppose snooty aunt may be correct.

The same teacher told our class, "the story of your life is the story of the decisions you make". That's always stuck with me.

NeverTalksToStrangers · 05/04/2018 00:27

I'm regularly accused still (lightheartedly) of being middle class. I grew up (and now live currently) in a nice town in one of the more rural counties. Went to catholic grammar school (not free but minimal fees for about 4 years I was there), parents teachers, lived in a nice 4 bedroom house, went to piano and elocution lessons.

One protestant bloke I work with correctly guessed that my folks would have been sdlp voters back in the day.

I've asked my friends with similar backgrounds if they get the same thing said, and they do. I think it's partly because none of us have particularly strong townie/culchie accents.

dinosaurkisses · 05/04/2018 00:37

Yes to BRA being proud of the economic diversity throughout emir pupils- I remember after the "official 11 plus" was abolished the headmaster was spearheading a campaign to maintain academic selection.

During a class discussion someone asked the teacher what he was trying to do- he explained that if the changes came in, the expected move for the school in order to maintain its facilities etc would be to move to a private system. That simply wouldn't work for a school like BRA- too high a percentage of its pupils were from lower income families who couldn't manage the voluntary fee never mind thousands a year. It would completely go against the ethos of the school to exclude capable children with potential because of their parents income.

It wasn't a perfect school by any stretch of the imagination, but you could walk into any classroom and there would be kids whos' parents were millionaires and holidayed in Barbados each year sitting beside another child on free school meals and lived in a council house.